Banks are bastards

[red750]

I was forwarded this by an email friend. The artcle is from the Sydney Morning Herald, but as usual, locked behind a paywall.

 

After mum’s death, the bank defaulted to bastardry
Sue Williams

 

My mother died recently, leaving my 93-year-old father, who had relied on her to do his internet banking, all alone. It’s not like he could easily pop into the bank either. His local branch has closed and his nearest one is 38 kilometres away and opens only on weekday mornings. What’s more, without Mum to drive him to the station, the train journey is nigh-on impossible. But Dad, ever keen to do the right thing, went all the way to the bank to tell them his wife had died. And what did they do as a result? A day later, without any warning, they locked him out of his online account. There have been many people, over the years, who’ve described Australian banks as bastards. Today, they make it absolutely impossible not to agree. We all know about their cash earnings hitting a record $32.5 billion this year. Meanwhile, staff cutbacks have reached a new high and phone helplines, the only route left to many customers, have extended to incredible wait times.

 

I sat for two hours listening to dismal music on repeat before finally giving up on the attempt to have his access unlocked.

 

Indeed, the Australian Customer Experience Professionals Association found in August that the performance of the bank call centres of our main retail banks was less than 26.7 per cent effective – the worst result of any business sector.

 

All this has a huge human cost. Go to any remaining bank branch in Australia and the scene will be exactly the same: queues of forlorn elderly people, who haven’t been brought up with computers, waiting gloomily in line in understaffed offices to see stressed-out, overworked and impatient tellers.

 

As the banks race zealously towards a cut-price, online future, a big tranche of their loyal – yet not so technologically literate customers – are left behind; out-oftouch, voiceless and, as a result, often utterly stripped of power, confidence and the capacity for self-determination.

 

Dad is careful with his money, as people of that generation are, and he looks after it closely. But he paid dearly for his conscientiousness in telling the bank his joint account holder was no more.

 

Now, distressed that he can no longer have us show him his account on the internet, check the money going out and coming back in, he has no idea what to do.

 

Hours on the helplines eventually yielded the advice that I should go physically into a bank branch.

So I went into the city, as my nearest branch has also closed, only to be told they couldn’t talk to me because my father wasn’t there

– despite all my power of attorney documents. I explained he didn’t live in Sydney, but that also fell on deaf ears.

I was told to phone another number. When that was finally answered, I was told they couldn’t speak to me because my father’s account was private – forget those POA papers.

 

So what to do next? Who knows? Do we just wait and see and hope that one day they might sort out the mess and miraculously unlock his account so he can reclaim a semblance of his independence?

 

Or do we keep bashing our heads against a brick wall in the hope that the sight of all the blood might stir someone, anyone, to action?

 

Every teller and phoneline person I’ve so far spoken to, always expresses their sympathy and regret that my mother, and his wife, has passed away.

 

I struggle not to tell them, however, that we don’t want their sympathy. We just want them to stop being such bastards.

 

Sue Williams is a freelance travel writer, author and journalist.

[red750]

Many folks have individual accounts, which is fine, but you should have living expense accounts in joint names, with either to sign authority. When one partner dies, the account automatically defaults to an individual account of the remaining partner. That's what happened when my wife died. When I notified the bank, with her death certificate, I was able to continue using the account until they deleted her name from it.

[facthunter]

There are several laid down processes for sorting out these Issues. People get PAID to write these articles that end up with Newspapers in print or on line.   Nev

[red750]

Yeah yeah yeah.... everything in the paper is bullshit except the date and the price, and even they are questionable.

[facthunter]

Newspapers main  aim is to make money and rarely print GOOD news.. Doesn't sell as well as Fear and Hate.  Nev

[spacesailor]

That ' same thing g ' , happened to me  ! .

On the birth of our first daughter. 

I went to the bank , to get a little cash & pay a bill .

But low & behold , I was denied access to our joint account.  Due to " no spouse on my arm .

I could easily have got " ANY " FEMALE to stand beside me to  " ACCESS  " A' joint account .

spacesailor

Ps : I removed ALL our money &  closed that account. 

 

[octave]

13 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

But low & behold , I was denied access to our joint account.  Due to " no spouse on my arm .

 

My experience is that joint accounts are set up as "either to sign" or "both to sign"   My wife and I have a joint account where either of us can sign.    If you were refused a withdrawal on your account it undoubtedly was because when you opened it you opted for "both to sign" 

[spacesailor]

That account Was . ' Either ' to sign

But

The bureaucrat decided to play nasty .

spacesailor 

[octave]

2 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

That account Was . ' Either ' to sign

But

The bureaucrat decided to play nasty .

spacesailor 

 

I find it hard to believe that a bank teller for some mysterious reason would deny you a withdrawal.    I also find it hard to believe that you did not stand up for yourself.  Why would you just accept a teller denying you your withdrawal?   

[spacesailor]

I  " don't possess a GUN " .

He Is incharge of the bank  & if you even shout at the ' dickhead ' he has the power to bring in the " police " .

To evict you .

spacesailor

[octave]

14 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I  " don't possess a GUN " .

He Is incharge of the bank  & if you even shout at the ' dickhead ' he has the power to bring in the " police " .

To evict you .

spacesailor

A bank teller is not in charge of the bank. My wife used to be a bank teller and she has never heard of a teller doing such a thing.  If this happened to me I would certainly close all my accounts at that bank. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The teller could certainly cal the police if you shouted at him or her, bit that would be for some alleged public order or personal criminal offence and not for evicting you. The CEO of the bank can't evict you unless you are in a Basel II default, which is in arrears for 90 days. And believe it or not, a bank will only use foreclosure as a last resort. At least the main ones do, anyway,

[old man emu]

We just got this in NSW.

 

 

 The Crimes Legislation Amendment (Assaults on Retail Workers) Bill 2023.

The bill creates three new offences into the Crimes Act 1900. It is now an offence to:

• assault, throw a missile at, stalk, harass or intimidate a retail worker in the course of the worker’s duty, even if no actual bodily harm is caused to the worker, with a maximum penalty of 4 years’ imprisonment.
• assault a retail worker in the course of the worker’s duty and cause actual bodily harm to the worker, with a maximum penalty of 6 years’ imprisonment.
• wound or cause grievous bodily harm to a retail worker in the course of the worker’s duty, being reckless as to causing actual bodily harm to the worker or another person, with a maximum penalty of 11 years’ imprisonment.

But a bank teller is not covered:

Retail worker is defined as a person whose duties primarily involve working in an area of a shop open to the public. Shop is defined as the whole or a part of a building, place, stall, structure, tent, vehicle or yard in which goods are sold, or offered or exposed for sale, by retail, including by auction.

 

I would imagine that over the coming months there will be requests from employee associations to have the definition amended to include any employee of a business whose duties require face-to-face contact with a member of the public, such as receptionists in real estate agencies and bank tellers or cashiers in so many places.

[onetrack]

The banks are the Gold Standard when it comes to Bastardry, and I've been on the receiving end of plenty of that Bastardry.

All my assets, built up over 30 years were destroyed by an act of Utter and Total Bastardry in an unwarranted foreclosure.

 

The article is true and can be vouched for by tens of thousands of other bank clients who get treated like s*** by banks and bank staff.

 

I have even been charged a $25 "cash advance fee" by a bank to withdraw money from a credit card that was in credit. I only withdrew the credit amount, I did not draw down on any credit level available. The money withdrawal brought the credit card back to zero. I closed the card account and I refuse point blank to ever deal with that bank again - HSBC.

 

Here's a bloke who got refused a cash withdrawal from his own cashed-up account, right after his house burnt down and he ended up with nothing but the shirt on his back. They are scumbags of the lowest order.

 

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/anz-workers-turn-away-man-who-lost-his-home-in-bushfire-20231224-p5etia.html

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by onetrack

[octave]

4 hours ago, onetrack said:

The article is true and can be vouched for by tens of thousands of other bank clients who get treated like s*** by banks and bank staff.

 

I think we need to distinguish between the teller at the coal face and the people who determine the rules and regulations.  My wife many years ago was a bank teller and was once abused and called a "f****** Bi***" because she refused to cash a cheque. On another occasion, she bent the rules to help someone and she paid a price. The cheque did not have everything it was supposed to have.   As a lowly teller, she simply did not have the power to override bank policy.  Today I traveled to the city on the train and there was an announcement asking people not to abuse the staff.  Over Christmas travelling by air, there was the same announcement.  It seems more and more we are abusing the people at the coalface. 

 

Please don't brand bank staff as bastards because it almost certainly is not true.  

[spacesailor]

PEOPLE

Are just fed-up to the teeth,  with " petty Bureaucrocrats " , handing out shit. Because they can .

The worst are the ones " caring " for the most vulnerable. 

Little Gods .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

Apart from a very short stint with a financial services firm developing home shopping over Telecom Australia's Vianet back in about 1985, my very first banking job was with Bendigo Bank in 2003, which sadly lasted only 6 months as my partner just didn't take to Bendigo and it was impractical to relocate my job to Melbourne.

 

When I joined, I had the same impression as most that banks are bastards. But, I can honestly say, this was not the case at Bendigo. During the induction courses, they were at pains to emphasise to to what they can to help their customers. They trained their staff to work with customers through hard times as customers getting back on their feet is more valuable to the bank and society than just letting people go to the wall. Of course they admitted there were limits for two reasons; they have to protect their depositors' money and at the end of the day, in a capitalistic society, they have to make a profit, too. But, in my opinion, from behind the scenes, they were honestly attempting to strike the right balance. They even still operated passbook accounts, which are horribly expensive to operate, while others sent them the way of he dodo, because there were elderly who would be maginalised if they withdrew the service.

 

I am sure someone will come along with a story about how they were shafted by them. And I would not be surprised if they have since deteriorated as these days, the workforce is in general more selfish than it was (or at least I think). But to speak to Octave's point about the coal face, a lot of people in head office came from the coal face who see things differently from graduates wanting to make their mark on the world and implement their policies without fear of direct retribution from their customers.

 

This was exemplified by a person who started at Bendigo the same time I did. He was in charge of some function - I can't recall - payments or something. He was ex-lifer from Westpac from memory and had never spent a day in a branch or with retail customers. His approach was coarse and very belligerent in the changes he wanted to make to his function that impacted customers' lives. I don't know what happened to him - I would have guessed either he or Bendigo got frustrated and he would have left - that is pure speculation. But a few times I was there, senior execs had to intervene to stop him rolling something out some bureaucratic process at least once (it was a while ago).

 

Since then, I have always banked with smaller banks.. they are just as safe and they are closer to their customers than the big ones - they have to be to maintain their reputation. They don't always offer all services (for example, they didn't have a branch in London, where most big ones do), but the services they offer are rarely used anyway.

 

The nickname for HSBC in the industry is How Simple Became Complicated; in OT's case, it sounds like How Simple Became C**ts,

 

[Edit] Over here, something that happened to the fella reported in the ABC would probably not happen because the Financial Services Ombudsman is a toothed up tiger, and has been known to order decent compensation  payments when banks operate like that.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[spacesailor]

I tried HSBC ! .

BUT 

Every time I went off touring around Australia

They , locked my account due to not visiting a ' branch ' .

Only a couple of weeks maybe three weeks  Max. 

And my " debit card " stopped working.

Bad timing when nearing Darwin & have to " borrow " the wife's debit card to pay for fuel .

spacesailor

[octave]

5 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Every time I went off touring around Australia

They , locked my account due to not visiting a ' branch ' .

 

How many times did this happen before you took control of the situation and switched to a bank that better suited your needs?

[onetrack]

Jerry, I bank with Bendigo Bank and I also hold shares in the local Bendigo Bank branch. I like their "community-focused" approach and I generally have very little problems with them.

They have taken over in many rural areas of Australia where the Big Banks have pulled out, leaving country people with no local banking facilities.

 

As to the smaller banks in Australia - the vast majority of them are owned by and controlled by the "Big Four" of the banking system.

 

A trend recently has been when a Credit Society gets a banking licence, it's not long before that "new small bank" is bought out by the Big Four.

 

A couple of others that I deal with, are Defence Bank (a fairly recent Credit Society convert to a Bank) and CFCU, another Credit Society conversion to a Bank - but both these institutions are member-owned.

I also have a joint savings account with SWMBO with ME Bank (another CS conversion to a bank) - but I was extremely annoyed when ME Bank was snatched up by the Bank of Queensland in 2021.

[octave]

I think that systems are complicated. Sometimes we don't get what we want immediately. Mostly  I find things go OK. Recently I had some frustrations with  Centrelink regarding my mother's situation as I administer her affairs.  I had a situation where I could not get the correct information to get to where it should be. Let me stress the counter staff were fantastic however if the computer system will not accept the information it is hardly their fault.  It would be paranoid and a little dickish to think that these people spend their lives trying to make life difficult. The other side of the coin is the outrage when someone gets something they are not entitled to. Everyone then says stupid Centrelink staff allowing people to rip off the system.

 

I must admit I have little patience for whinging. When I was a kid my dad would listen to my problems but would have little patience for me constantly restating the problem. he would say "Yes you have told me the problem, now you have to either work out how to live with it, solve it, or get around it.

 

As an example, people constantly go on about bank's super profits and I certainly understand this.  I don't however contribute to these massive profits. I bank with one of the many banks where the only shareholders are the customers. As a shareholder, I get to vote on the bank's direction.

 

 

[octave]

I bank with Bank Australia which grew out of a coalition between CSIRO credit union and other credit unions.   Just by having an account you are like a shareholder and you get to vote in the AGM.  I have it organized so I never pay fees.  The bank does not lend money to things I tend to disagree with.  There are not so many branches however I have never needed face-to-face banking.  I don't need cash but if I did I could go to any post office. Interest rates seem comparable to the mainstream banks

[onetrack]

The customer-owned Mutual Banks, Building Societies and Credit Unions make up a surprisingly large portion of the banking scene, and they're represented by the Customer Owned Banking Association.

The problem with many of these organisations is their narrow customer focus, or narrow coverage area. I deal with Defence Bank and CFCU because they operate Australia-wide.

 

https://www.customerownedbanking.asn.au/about-us/our-members/

[octave]

I can't speak for other banks but Bank Australia operates Australia-wide. They have branches in most states but given digital banking it is not necessary to have branches all over the place. For those who want branches everywhere, they just have to put up with banking with bigger banks and accept their business model.  For me, at least a local branch is just not necessary.

[red750]

I guess you could say I have had a foot in both camps. 

 

When I left school I got a job with the Commercial Bank of Australia Limited. My family lived in Gippsland, but my first branch was in Caulfield. I boarded for quite a few years. My first couple of years were in back office clerical positions learning about banking. A six month stay in the mailing dept of Inspectors office, Melbourne Office, getting the inside picture, I went back to the suburban branches, where I graduated to teller. My family moved to Melbourne, as Dad was working as a truck driver there too, and shortly after I was transferred back to my old home town, and had to board again. After about 12 months, I transferred back to the big smoke where I moved around many branches as a teller, including during the conversion to decimal currency.

 

I applied for a vacancy in the Data Processing Centre doing reconciliations, then set up the microfilming dept. I was selected to assist the programming team who were building small systems for electronic processing in small interstate data centres. It was around this time that I got married. After three months assisting a colleague establish the Adelaide centre, I went on to establish the Sydney Centre, and managed it from 1972 to 1978. This involved training the young guys recruited from branches to operate the mainframe computer and the girls to handle the reconciliation and data entry machines. 

 

At the end of 1978 I was transferred back to the programming dept in Melbourne, where I learned to be a systems analyst, writing program specifications for systems upgrades. Shortly after, negotialions were held between the Commercial Bank and the Bank of New South Wales to merge the two companies to form Westpac. I ran the scheduling program (PERT)  which managed the integration of the two different computer systems, including a period of commmuting to Sydney once the IT department consolidated there. My wife did not wish to move back to Sydney with 3 kids, so I went back into general banking, running a regional processing centre at Camberwell. When technology developments replaced the processing centres, I was retrenched.

 

My wife worked for CommBank as a managers typist and relieving teller, at one CBD branch looking down the barrel of a gun and forced to the floor. My eldest son was also a teller with CommBank for a few years.

 

Counter staff don't make the rules, faceless men in Head Office do. Tellers usually try to do the best for their customers but have to follow rules or face the consequences. But like any business, you can run across the a..holes from time to time.