Electric car thread

[kgwilson]

My MG 4 has a row of physical buttons to turn major things on & off. It also has a 10 inch infotainment screen to manage detailed stuff. I have never heard of any EVs having issues with touch screens. These have been around since the 1980s & with a large screen work really well. The screen demister has a single physical button. The air conditioning/heater/fan has another. When pressed the whole screen is all of the controls for this & the touch buttons are really large. It is easier to operate that any rotary or slider controls I've ever used in a multitude of cars before. There are also voice commands for everything though I don't use this by choice though the car will tell me things that are important like when the battery is getting low.

 

Yes some car manufacturers have reverted back to some physical buttons mainly due to complaints from owners who have not embraced the technology or the poor design of the system. I have programmable physical buttons on the steering wheel that can be set for a bunch of different functions & they have 5 options (up/down/left side/right side and press). I have one set to radio/music, satnav, aircon for example & can run all the options from that one button. Some functions cannot be used when the car is moving as a safety feature, eg satnav unless using voice commands. 

 

Comments/complaints about use from owners has led to upgrades & these are just software changes all done free. 

 

There is a very large transition happening and some things will not find acceptance from some conservative people. All they have to do is try to accept the change and persevere and most will eventually grow to like it. I do like the drivers screen directly in front with speed/odomoeter battery, power ACC etc rather than the Tesla model of a large centre screen & nothing directly in front of the driver. 

 

The woman in my car has a cultured but not posh English accent which I find very easy to understand.

[old man emu]

9 hours ago, kgwilson said:

directly in front of the driver. 

You've hit my objection right on the head with that. The driver should have all relevant information within the forward field of vision. not in a position where that field needs to be turned to the side by a turn of the head.

[octave]

9 minutes ago, old man emu said:

The driver should have all relevant information within the forward field

In most EVs I know of it is in front of you.  My heater and demister switches on my old Ford Focus are not directly in front of me.

 

Here is a picture of the primary display for a BYD

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's not just EVs that have LED and similar tablet type displays in front of them.. most new cars to these days. That really is not the issue. A speedo cable can snap on an analogue system and you have the same issue - I have had it happen on a Saturday arvo and no speedo until Monday morning. 

 

I would hope there are no controls on that screen. Sticking yuor hand between the spokes of the steering wheel is not a good thing. 

 

On the controls, using touch screen doesn't give you a sense of magnitude of change (e.g. temperature, etc) without looking. Well, at least for some time, anyway. Also, early model Teslas were infamous for the depth of menu setting one had to go through to get to whatever function was required. 

 

Muscle memory will only go some way.. as it does on analogue or tactile type inputs. How many times (in an old 4 or 5 on the floor, or even a 3 or 54 on the column) have we crunched the gears or almost stalled the car going into the wrong gear. However, the physical/tactile approach allows us to correct without reverting to looking at the gears (unless we really stuff it up and have lost spatial awareness of where the gear is).

 

So, the Atrick household vehicle mix is chaning. Daughter just wants an old banger (UK speak)/bomb (Aus speak) of a car as she will be in a house in the next academic year, won't have a driveway, and will not want the hassle of a nice car getting road rash from an inner urban environment. Good on her. So it will be a petrol Ford Fiesta (most likely); manual, a/c, power steering and otherwise minimal. 

 

Mrs Atrick is in for a little shock... She is getting an EV - Probably an MG4 to replace her mini.  She doesn't know it yet.

[nomadpete]

I hope I didn't sound too 'conservative' - that term has negative political connotations these days.

 

I do prefer tactile interaction with controls. That won't stop me playing/learning other kinds or locations of controls. Of course I'll adapt.

 

But I hope the other automated facets of new vehicles gets very thoroughly tested.

I spent a lot of my career testing and commissioning complex automation and I know there will always be users who can bring about unforseen results.

 

A bit like MrMusky's unplanned post launch disassembly of his rockets.

[Marty_d]

I agree Peter - part of a previous job was system testing changes to a large organisation's primary database before they were deployed.

For five weeks at a time we'd try to break it by doing the stupidest things humans could do to it.

After deployment, when the programmers had applied fixes to any weaknesses we'd found, inevitably some moron still managed to break it.

 

[facthunter]

Because you can't cover EVERY Possibility by simple LOGIC.  Nev

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

inevitably some moron still managed to break it.

Also known as Murphy's Law.

[nomadpete]

Just when you make it foolproof........

along come smarter fools.

 

 

Oh, wait.... did that happen to USof A last year?

[Jerry_Atrick]

The best form of testing is to release to production

[red750]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/motoring/motoring-news/peugeot-suspends-australian-car-sales-amid-pressure-from-cheaper-chinese-rivals/news-story/194491500cf89f20e2a560fe73013f08

[Marty_d]

I thought Peugeot were owned by the same company that produces MG and a raft of other Chinese cars.

[facthunter]

Owned by Stellantis..Marty. 

Jerry That would be the Best way to go Broke. You need to eliminate faults BEFORE you  decide to go into Production. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Microsoft are doing very well, aren't they?

[nomadpete]

Maybe not only an EV issue.....

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Would an EV pull a heavy laden box trailer up hill do you think? Would there be enough torque from the electric motor?

[facthunter]

They accelerate  like Racing cars. How long they can do it for depends on the Battery size and charge. Nev

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Would an EV pull a heavy laden box trailer up hill do you think? Would there be enough torque from the electric motor?

Read up on the Tesla electric conversion kit - when fitted to old series Landrovers.

 

No problem with getting enough torque to climb serious 4wd stuff.

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

They accelerate  like Racing cars. How long they can do it for depends on the Battery size and charge. Nev

As Nev said, whether petrol, diesel or electric - the harder you work it, the less range you get. Adequate power can come from any of these sources. A big advantage that EV's have is great torque from zero rpm. BTW steam is like that, too. Piston engine has zero torque at zero rpm.

 

[facthunter]

Depends on the throws of a steam engine. Double acting at 90degres gives maximum starting ease for Minimum complexity. Steam tug motors were triple expansion double acting. I can't see how triple expansion starts easy though..  Nev

[kgwilson]

I have just passed 50,000km in my 2023 MG4 Essence 64. Maintenance so far nil except new windscreen after it was hit with a stone. Faults, drivers window stopped working & electric motor under tray bulging. Both fixed under warranty. Service, one at 40,000 km. Just required checks to all components & new pollen filter. Tyres still have 10-15,000 km tread left. Cost to run about $150.00 spent at fast chargers when on long trips. At home charged from solar exclusively from a 32 Amp charger purchased at the same time as the car. That cost $530.00 but energy cost zero. 

 

I reckon I have saved between $8-10,000.00 over an equivalent petrol vehicle.

[facthunter]

There's practically NO servicing. Tyres and wiper blades.. A lot of people I know are looking at them right now.  Trump doesn't want them so they MUST be OK. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I managed to get a great deal online for a Citroen C3 1.2l petrol manual for hire since my Volvo's diff decided to poop itself on the weekend. But, imagine the horror on my face when they didn't actually have one and the only car they had that they wouldn't charge me extra for was a BMW i-4 M Sport, with  range just shy of 300 miles. I was not impressed at all 😉

 

So, I have this fancy sparky car for the princely sum of GBP 95 for the week (around $190).. plus GBP45 for the excess insurance. I suggested they do a 6 month rental but the manager told me they are paying about twice for the lease on it 

 

I have had it 36 hours now; picked it up from Exeter airport. I love it. It is probably a cut above the MG4 Urban I am looking t, but taking away the fancy stuff, it is soooooo smooth. And there's enough road noise to cover for the lack of engine growl. What I really love is you can park just about anywhere there is a charger and as long as it is plugged in, at least on council parking areas, you don't pay car parking fees.. it doesn't have to be charging. Though, some people have abused it so our council is bringing in limits post charging complete. 

 

Virtually every supermarket is installing fast chargers. I stopped at the Sainsburys in Richmond and the price for a 400kw/h charger - not that I got anywhere near that - was 62p/hr with my nectar (loyalty) card or 72p/hr without it. I did top up the car last night before the commute to Londong this morning at a 200kw/h charger in the council car park - that was a rip off at 92p/kwh. I did get some range anxiety this morning on the way in. wanted to make sure that I had enough to get to the services tomorrow, so stopped at Reading Services and aid 92p/kwh. FFS, how can the vendor of a council site - and the council - allow the same cost as a services and the charger at the council site was 1/2 the recharge rate of the services! Out council is stuffed (another thread I know). . Compared to the Sainsbury's charging,, the services costs were expected as they are about 20 - 30p a litre more for petrol.

 

But the real advantage is that you can almost park anywhere near where you want to go and charge up while you do whatever you want to do, That council car park was around the corner fro where we went to dinner on Sunday night. So, if I am low on fuel, I can park nearby and while chowing down, shipping, or whatever, the car fuels itself. Now, if that charging point happens to be full, the satnav in the car will direct you to the nearest that is available at the charge rate you want. 

 

Back to the driving.. It is as smooth as silk and the acceleration is brisk to say the least.. think pushing you into the back of the seat like an F18 with your lips and gums compressing against your cheek bone fast. Sorry Jeremy Clarkson, some ICE based Porsche simply doesn't compete (a fiend as a 911 targo or something - admittedly older - and it is quick - but nothing like this). BTW, it doesn't matter what speed (at least to about 70mph) one is doing.. the acceleration feels much the same.. break neck.

 

Because it is a heavy car, and with a lower centre of gravity, it really sticks to the road.. And I mean sticks. I have thrown it around roundabouts and corners at speeds that were pushing my innards outwards from the sides.. but the car stuck to the tarmac like it was a fly to flypaper.

 

And braking is almost a thing of the past, except for emergency braking. After about 20 minutes of driving on the motorway, I worked out how to just use normal foresight to come off the accelerator enough to put s smidge of electricity back into the battery, but more important to the environment, massively reduce the asbestos dust that is being generated I have had my Volvo for 13 years - it is a big old lump that I rarely drove respectfully.. and in that time I went through a set of pads once... and at the same time discs.. As a cheapskate, I found OEM aftermarkets a darned sight cheaper than the fleecers (IMHO) of the main Volvo dealer somewhere near me.. so I am not saying regenerative braking will save me a lot of money... but the environment has to be worth something, right?

 

But there are some niggling things - not all to do with the car or the battery/technology. But, some were to do with the car. 

 

Despite the car's supposed 200kw/h charging capacity, it only peaked at 120kw/h and only for a short period. It averaged 50 I would say, and reduced significantly as the charge rate went up. This meant, when the battery was at 45% charge coming into Reading, it was a good 40 minutes before it got to 85%, I did a bit of research as to why that would be the case and there are two reasons.. a) something wrong with th charging system or b) I didn't pre-condition the battery, Although I didn't.. it was after a 100 mile trip at 75mph and I would be very surprised if it was not warm enough to take the faster charging. I got similar recharging rates this afternoon at Sainsbury's and I forgot to pre-condition - but it was 28 degrees. I have put a post it note in the car to pre-condition the battery before the next charge. 

 

But, although not necessary in this case and I know the battery charge rate is probably better on a non-hire car, 40 minutes was a bit shit. Thankfully, at my age, I managed to get two pees in the service's dunnies, rather than the regulatory one. So, I feel the ore expensive charge rate was justified in this case. But seriously, as my daughter did point out, if you are low and in a hurry, liquid fuel is going to be quicker. But how often does that really happen?

 

One of the rubbish things about renting a BEV is that you only have what charging cable they give you. And it will rarely be a 3 pin power point plug. And I will be darned if I am going to buy a GBP* 50 adaptor for the week (but I may well be paying for it in higher electricity costs of public charging stations). OK, that has nothing to do with electric vehicles per se, bit it would have been gppd for the standard plug to the the basic power point plug of the country. Of course, the UK domestic plug is a beaut and easily handles 32 amps; and I am sure Aussie ones do, too. but with a rental, at least in the UK from this major brand, you have to either buy an adaptor (assuming you have a 32A socket) or pay more at public charging points/stations. 

 

And one of the issues is the sheer inconsistencies of the infrastructure. I sort of lump the problems of it. You know those lively distributed charging stations/points? They aren't monitored like the pumps of a servo (at least when it is opened). So, there are a lot that are vandalised. Oh they have CCTV, bit a balaclava sporting scrote on a stolen moped on a path of destruction is hardly going to be concerned about being caught on CCTV in a country where non violent theft is not even investigated anymore. 

 

Then you have basic incompatibility  - with the car and the payment method. The Taunton Crescent car park, which was remodelled at great ratepayer (council tax payer) expense while at he same time reducing capacity beyond that from just the installation of BEV chargers, did not seen to recognise my rented car, nor despite the instruction signs indicating otherwise, my debit card for payment, I spent about 10 minutes faffing about before giving up and moving to the next place. And on top of that, my shit council (IMHO) charged for parking in addition to the rent they receive, and I am guessing the commission on that expensive per KW/H charging costs. Of course, if you can't charge your car they aren't earning the commission. 

 

Most of my gripes are about charging.. but like the above, are nothing to do with the car itself.. but, like the curtailment costs of Scottish wind generation, crap planning and implementation Serioulsy, how decision makers get into decision making jobs is beyond me, So, after giving up on the Crescent car park, I went to the next closed place with decent charging rate chargers - the Taunton Marks and Spencers Car park, and realised that they closed that car park not too long after closing.. and given I was there not too long before closing,, it rally wasn't an option staying as the beemer did not come with the optional root top tent to be used in the case of such a circumstance. 

 

The Beemer satnav told me the next closest fastest chargers was a Morrisons Supermarket carpark.. Morrisons is a cross between IGA and Ken Bruce in terms of its demographics (if you're not from Vic, you're not mad; you have never heard of Ken Bruce nor seen his quality ads with a stuffed cockatoo on his shoulder). I arrived and although the supermarket was going to be open for at least anout 1.5 hours, they set up bricks and bollards to block us now frustrated and somewhat nervous BEV drivers with only 48% battery left.. My dog.. With only 100 miles range left, where I am going to find a charger that works, is going to be open and will read my worn out debit card? 

 

The council buildings.. and they are, IMHO, mongrels for what they charge. Compared to the Devon council, IMHO, they are charlatans. 

 

Sadly, SWMBO is becoming a technophbe.. so I can't persuade her to go for the Beemer.. So it is an automatics M4 Urban... Petrol that uses a funny cable to deliver the petrol - that is because it has to be filtered properly.