Electric car thread

[onetrack]

Back to EV's - the original subject of this thread. Ford are going all-out to try and beat the Chinese EV onslaught with a new EV pickup. It means starting a whole new style of assembly line from scratch.

 

The Wall St Journal has the original full story, this part below is merely an excerpt. You need to pay a subscription to the WSJ to read the full article, but the excerpt provides the "guts" of the story.

 

QUOTE:

 

"Crews are preparing Ford's Louisville factory to make a planned line of EVs. Photo Credit: Houston Cofield for WSJ
The secret is now out as Ford races toward building its first model, a new truck it says will be nearly as fast as a Mustang, travel around 300 miles on a single charge and feature in-car technology to compete with Tesla and China. It’s aiming for a 2027 launch and a price tag of around $30,000, the cost of a Toyota Camry.

Getting there means tearing up a century of manufacturing practices in a notoriously hidebound industry. At stake for Ford is securing a future beyond the gas-guzzling pickups and SUVs that have long defined its bottom line.
The project had been kept quiet from its 2022 start, led by veterans from Tesla and Apple who worked on designs out of a California office. Ford eventually brought in some of its own employees to help execute the vision. The process was filled with misunderstandings and distrust as the techie outsiders worked to win over the risk-averse industry veterans.

To build these new EVs, the company must use fewer people and simpler parts, and dismantle decades of engineering inertia. Chief Executive Jim Farley is calling it Ford’s new “Model T moment.”

Rival automakers say overcoming China on EVs can’t be done, given their advantages: extensive government backing, low-cost labor and a massive head start.
With its new truck, Ford says it has eliminated thousands of feet of heavy copper wiring, cut out hundreds of parts, and made it 15% more aerodynamic than its other pickups.

The process included rethinking the assembly line, which Ford helped to pioneer. That process is traditionally iterative, slow and depends on scores of outside partners. On Ford’s new “assembly tree,” a modular system stamps out two massive, aluminum castings and a battery that get merged at the end of the process—closer to how Tesla and China’s automakers build EVs.

“We’ve never blown the whole thing up before and just started over,” Coffey said. “If and when we build this, we will rewire Ford.”

For a year, a team of 17—tiny by Ford standards—worked out a design for the first new EV. Their vision collided with Farley’s. He nixed the first vehicle the California team was developing, an SUV-type model. Build a midsize pickup instead, he told them. It fills a void in the EV market and will be a bigger hit with car buyers, he said.

Then they attacked Ford procedures and mandates the team deemed obsolete, or even nonsensical.
Field described one such rule. All Ford vehicles must be built with a slight lip above the opening to prevent rain from spilling in the window when a driver or passenger cracks it to smoke a cigarette. Nicknamed “smokers window,” it added aerodynamic drag, costing battery range. The new truck won’t have it.

Managers were fanatical about keeping Ford’s ranks away from the project. “There were so many times that I protected the team,” Clarke said, fearing that outsiders could slow the building momentum.
Dreaming up a design was one thing. Building it was another. That’s when Clarke and Field started recruiting company veterans to join its ranks. They sought out the misfits and malcontents within Ford—the type of people, Clarke said, chafing under Ford’s often-rigid structure.

The freewheeling phase is over now. At a sprawling factory in Louisville, Ky., where Ford used to build gas-powered SUVs, crews are working to set up tooling and the new trio of assembly lines to build the EV. The company tested about 30 hand-built prototypes to try to root out problems earlier in the process. Later this year, they plan to start building—then road-testing—the first factory-built models. Ford says the truck’s interior will be roomier than a compact crossover SUV’s.

Hyundai Motor CEO José Muñoz, asked recently whether it’s possible for an automaker to build a vehicle in the U.S. that competes with the Chinese, was unequivocal: “It is impossible,” he said."

 

 

The future of Ford will likely hinge on how effectively it can counter the Chinese car onslaught. I guess Ford is hoping this EV will pull a rabbit out of the hat for them.

IMO, they have left their run too late, the Chinese have a massive head start, and have virtually unlimited financing from Xi and the CCP. Only time will tell.

[onetrack]

Here's a short news video on Ford's new EV move - which goes against everything the Tangerine Toddler has been promising, as regards fossil fuel power in America.

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

Well, late to the party. So is Toyota.

 

I reckon it will hinge on Ford's ability to make better assembly robots than the present Chinese robots. Hence the 'T model' comparison.

 

Tech changes fast these days.

 

Good luck with that.

[facthunter]

Good on Yer for Trying anyhow.  Altthough Trump said "America doesn't have Many Geniuses.". Comforting to know?  ( But I don't reckon HE would Know anyhow).  Nev

[kgwilson]

It is not surprising that Ford are pursuing the EV pathway. Their earlier efforts were not that flash but the CEO Jim Farley went to China and airlifted a Xaiomi SU7 EV home which he uses as his daily drive.

 

AI Overview

 

Ford CEO Jim Farley has heavily praised and personally driven a Chinese-made electric car—the Xiaomi SU7—for over six months, describing it as a superior product and a "game changer". While calling it a "shocker" that Chinese EVs are ahead of Western rivals in efficiency and software, he is focusing on keeping them out of the U.S. market to protect domestic manufacturing. 

 

Key Takeaways Regarding Ford & Electric Cars:

 

1. The Daily Driver: Farley stated he did not want to give up the Chinese Xiaomi SU7, stating on the Fully Charged Podcast that he didn't want to switch to a U.S.-made EV.

2. The Competitive Threat: Farley warned in 2025 and 2026 that Chinese automakers are "completely dominating" with superior products. He called their competition an existential threat on steroids compared to the 1980s Japanese auto boom.

3. Ford's Pivot: To compete, Ford has created a specialized, independent "Skunk Works" team in California tasked with developing a new, lower-cost EV platform to compete with Chinese competitors.

4. Upcoming Focus: Ford is planning a $5 billion investment in EVs, focusing on a new midsize pickup truck. 

 

Despite his admiration for the technology, Farley has urged the U.S. government to prevent Chinese carmakers from bringing their vehicles to the U.S. to prevent a massive hit to American, and specifically Michigan, manufacturing jobs. 

[facthunter]

IF they were Dumped there, Ford's project would be dead in the water. They Know what they are up against. Trump should spend a week or 2 in CHINA. to open his eyes. Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Trump should spend a week or 2 in CHINA.

For what it is worth:

https://time.com/article/2026/05/07/trump-xi-china-meeting-what-to-expect/

[facthunter]

Targeted for American eyes and the TV events that will Be arranged., not really getting to Know what's happening in the Country itself. It would be beyond Trumps Comprehension (and his Hangers on) to absorb the enormity of it. The World outside of America doesn't register, Just the exercise of Power and control.  Nev

[old man emu]

This video gives a good explanation of how a hybrid EV works. What I found interesting was at teh end when the presenter explained the differeence between a parallel and a series hybrid.  Apparently  in a the parallel the vehicle has a low power output ICE and the battery boosts the available power when needed for beginning to roll; hill climbing or overtaking. In a series system, the engine is in fact a generator which continually tops up the battery as the battery discharges to power the electric motors. So a Toyota Hybrid uses the parallel system and BYD Shark uses the series system. That's why the Toyota has better fuel economy than the Shark.

 

 

[facthunter]

They are nowhere near the same size or Power. You cannot create energy and the engines of hybrids get  a hard time.. Don't believe everything you get on You tube. Nev

[old man emu]

Nev, You're the greatest bloody naysayer of all times! When anyone posts anything, you misread it and then bag it. Did you even watch the video? I bet not!

 

All I was saying was that the video explained the concept underpining the hybrid design. I said nothing about power output comparisons. Of course energy cannot be created from nothing. It can be converted from one form to another - with losses as was stated in the video. 

 

[pmccarthy]

We just drove 250 km in our Toyota hybrid. Efficient and comfortable.

[old man emu]

12 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

We just drove 250 km in our Toyota hybrid. Efficient and comfortable.

Fcts, please. Engine capacity; battery capacity; fuel consumption in l/100km. Thank you.

[facthunter]

Up till recently OME, you were the Greatest Naysayer re Electric cars of all..  I also went to the University of Technology which you poo pooed, remember, as being lower class. I have also researched  a lot of this stuff as it has developed over many Years and still continue to do so. Anyone can Post on You Tube.

  A recent trip with My eldest son in a  near new Toyota Camry Hybrid gave 3.8 Litres/100kms over 730 Kms in 3 days of mostly Highway driving.. Nev

[red750]

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/outrage-over-proposal-to-charge-all-households-for-national-ev-charging-network/news-story/bbd8978da0b62ff10da3bbd60c8758d4?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialBakers

[octave]

1 minute ago, red750 said:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/outrage-over-proposal-to-charge-all-households-for-national-ev-charging-network/news-story/bbd8978da0b62ff10da3bbd60c8758d4?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialBakers

I haven't looked into this however if true does not bother me. At this point I don't own an EV but the the more of these vehicles on the road the better for everyone. As a regular cyclist I can say that I would rather be waiting at the traffic lights behind an EV than a car spewing fumes in my face  We know the kids who live near major highways have more respiratory issues.

My son recently spent time in Beijing. He was expecting the air to be thick with car fumes however the air was surprisingly clear thanks to the uptake of EVs. Thus benefits all of society.  

[facthunter]

That's Newscorpse Propaganda. I wouldn't take Much Notice of it..  Nev

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Up till recently OME, you were the Greatest Naysayer re Electric cars of all.

I may have had a Paulian conversion on the road to Damascus.

 

And Paulian if not a misspelling of Pauline.

[Marty_d]

Well, we're taking the jump.

My wife and I test drove 3 EVs today - MG 4, MG 4 Urban and MG 5.

Kate had already put down a deposit on the MG 4, but after driving all 3 we're tossing up between the Urban and the MG 5.

In all 3 cars the acceleration is brilliant. Handling is great. We found the Urban and MG 5 more comfortable because we're both tall (and possibly a bit wider than we should be).

Over the weekend we'll decide which way to go and switch the deposit on Monday.

[kgwilson]

I have had my MG4 for nearly 3 years now & Have no regrets other than the price of the facelift 2026 model is 10k cheaper than what I paid. Still another 4+ years of warranty. I have had 2 problems, the first was a drooping rear undertray & the second was the drivers door window stopped working. The undertray is a known issue & is the cover for the electric drive motor. The window issue was just a poor connection. All new models have a 10 year warranty or 250k whichever comes first. Mine was 7 years but unlimited km warranty. I am 168 cm so no issue with fitting in. I like the edgy styling of the 4. It was actually designed by the Royal Academy of Arts & engineered by SAIC UK. It has sold very well around the world except in China. 50/50 weight distribution, low CoG & RWD gives really good handling better than most others anywhere near its price range. All the new models have LFP batteries so a bit less energy dense but no nickel or cobalt & they are cheaper to produce so that is reflected in the price drop.

 

The new model has a bit less power but slightly better economy & a nice updated interior & a single piece spoiler, though I prefer the split spoilers of mine.

 

The urban is FWD and has a bigger boot as there is no motor there. It has less power & range but unless you are doing long trips is a good buy for the price.

 

For you i reckon the MG5 would be best. True SUV size though does not have the range of the MG4 nor the performance. 

 

Price depends on the spec level. I have the Essence with a 64 kWh battery so am biased but all the extra features were worth the extra money iIMHO.

 

I'd go for the best offer without compromising your requirements.

 

Do they still supply a granny charger? A lot of EVs no longer come with one. One thing I'd advise not to do is get talked in to one of their 7kW home chargers unless you get it thrown in for free. There are much better ones for much less on the market. I bought a ZJbeny for less than half the price & it is fully adjustable with app control, RFID, plug & play & OCCP capability. ZJ Beny make lots of chargers right up to massive super chargers. Also their V2L cable is over $200.00 & has a limited output of about 10 amps plus it is bulky. I bought a V2L adapter on line for $45.00 delivered & it has a max output of 32 amps but you need a big cable to take that load. Most of these are now limited to 16amps.

 

Good to see another forumite joining the EV revolution. You won't regret the decision. I certainly haven't

[Marty_d]

Thanks for the info @kgwilson.

Yes we're leaning towards the MG5 62 Essence. It's $14k more than the Urban, but can tow 750kg and a more solid feel on the road, not to mention a bit higher which is better as we age.

If we get that we can sell the Santa Fe. If we got the Urban we'd have to keep the Santa Fe for towing (no rubbish pick up here).

 

Interested in V2L. Could you share any advice on how to set that up? Does it go through the solar inverter or is there separate equipment linked to the board?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

Good onya Marty.

 

Our choice is limited by needing AWD for our driveway. This limits us to more expensive cars - dual motor and more (unnecessary) bells n whistles.

Presently looking a KIA 5 and Skoda. Really liked the big Zeeka, too. 

 

Not in a rush. Still waiting to see what's on the market later in the year.

 

So far, our solar/battery is exporting enough surplus to cover an EV charger.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by nomadpete
The usual FFS

[nomadpete]

I do find websearching to find real world experience of EV ownership very frustrating.

 

Reading forums brand and blogs, well they all seem to rave about long term greatness. Then you find out that for most people, two years is long term!

I realise these cars haven't been around very long, but most people seem to only keep cars a couple of years. 

 

My present cars are 18 -19yr and circa 300,000k. Not worn out yet!

[facthunter]

I've only had 4 new cars in my entire life, and serviced them myself.   You don't want to be working on todays cars. They are not designed to be fiddled with and can be a big Liability when the Original warrantee expires. Short trips ruin ICE cars, but don't bother electric.. Nev

[red750]

In many ways, my daughter is weird.  She has wanted an electric car for more than 15 years. Originally wanted to convert her Ford Festiva to electric. Even attended a seminar at Swinburne Tech. Now she wants to buy a Mustang Mach e and has almost saved up enough to do so. But she normally only drives a couple of km. a day.