Electric car thread

[onetrack]

Here's an interesting, current, Reuters article on the Chinese car industry - and it exposes what a mess the Chinese car manufacturing industry is in, solely due to Govt policies that encourage overproduction, far beyond the capacity of both Chinese and world markets, to absorb the numbers of vehicles being built.

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-is-sending-its-world-beating-auto-industry-into-tailspin-2025-09-17/

[facthunter]

Everyone who is remotely interested in Cars KNOWS there's too many manufacturers and Models. Nev

[pmccarthy]

Too many EVs that the market doesn't want.

[facthunter]

Bit simplistic.   The electric sector is Not Large but still growing.  All sectors are facing difficult circumstances due to Other  competing pressures on Capital, A new car is generally something you can put off.  Nev

[facthunter]

Lack of charging  "confidence" is a big reason That will get Better. WE don't carry enough Fossil fuel reserves and most refining is done overseas requiring  MONEY and transport costs and uncertainty. Maintenance of EV's is Mainly tyres and windscreen wiper Blades. The future of EV's is assured.  Look at what else is Battery powered. I'm one of the Original Petrol Heads, and have spent my whole life working on them,  But the Writing is on the wall. .Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

My next car is a BEV... Many people I know are getting them.. Petrol and Diesel cars are on their way out - at least in China and Europe. 

 

Range anxiety is a less of a concern now and it will keep decreasing. It was never my concern. My concern is the time and money I invest in this house.

 

 

[red750]

Range wouldn't be much of a concern over there. People here travel further to work each day than most Poms do on their holidays.

[spacesailor]

I just looked at a " Alfa Romeo hybrid  " it uses a four pot motor driving the front wheels .

The rear wheels  are electrically driven , the good ( ish ) part is it will get 50 ks on the rears .

Just the job for those quick trips to the local shops . ( without using the ICE motor ) .

spacesailor

 

PS. : EV owners,  how many have a outdoor power-point .

I have just ( after forty years ) had one fitted.  It's great , no extension leads .

[facthunter]

Better to have your EV charge point in the Garage. ALL Hybrids work Much like that. Some can't be charged externally and you don't know what charge is in them when you stop.  Done a bit of time in one recently. The ICE Motor Gets a pretty hard time. Not for ME thanks. Nev

[spacesailor]

This one. Can use the rear Electric motor. Just  needs the overnight charge .

50/60 k's of Happy shopping.

Without using the ic motor .

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

Charging infrastructure is only an issue if you are going somewhere  in the middle of nowhere. 90% or more of EV owners charge at home like me. Many have solar power & and EV plans with their energy retailer that provides them with cheap & some free power like me. I get free energy every day between 12:00 & 14:00 which is good as I am retired. For those who drive to work most get cheap energy from midnight till 4 am at around 5 cents a kWh.

 

The average Australian who drives to work travels less than 30km a day. This is probably fairly similar to UK drivers. That is because  73% of us live in major cities, 25% live in regional cities & towns & only 1.9% live in remote areas. I live in the country near Maclean & Yamba NSW, population 2800 & 7400 respectively. There are 2 Supercharger sites (350kW) 1 Fast Charger (75kW) within 15km & a number of slower & destination chargers.

 

Charging infrastructure is improving all the time. I get emails from a number of charging companies every month telling me of new sites that have been added. 

 

Most people who work travel distances only 2 to 4 times a year like Christmas, Easter & school holidays. This is when you need to plan your charging stops as  you will find them pretty busy. Accommodation has to be booked months and sometimes more than 12 months in advance. Petrol stations can run out of fuel at these times as well though it is not common.

 

I talk to other EV owners all the time & the only people who seem to have concerns about the charging infrastructure are those who don't own EVs.

[facthunter]

The self interested Powers that Be, wanna Knock Em. It's going to be interesting when there's Paraffin Fuel shortages. The servicing is Practically Non existent. The THING could not be simpler and you've cut your ties with the BAD Oil People who (Up till NOW) Have has it pretty good. Nev

[spacesailor]

My Grandson bought a " Hyundai  Ionic " electric car . To most , the range is not good .

it will last his weekly drive to work with a big percentage left. In the battery .

Again , he got a discounted rate on his power bill .

$ 4,50 weekly transport cost .

spacesailor

[onetrack]

The CEO of the Chinese car company Xiaomi has revealed what most already knew anyway, about how the Chinese have gained the leading edge in the sales race for EV's - Xiaomi purchased no less than THREE new Tesla Model Y's, and dis-assembled them all, to the last nut and bolt, and examined every part of the design, to use the information in the design of their new EV models.

 

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/secret-to-chinese-brands-success-exposed-xiaomi-boss-says-the-quiet-part-out-loud-with

 

Edited October 2 by onetrack

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's not surprising.. The Chinese have been ripping off others' IP for years.

[facthunter]

Every company strips other Makes to find what they can GET AWAY WITH (old days) Now it's take over and get the Details and copy if it's good. THAT even applies to OEM  Parts manufacturers. Robotics elevate the quality. Cost is absorbed by the QUANTITY so it becomes MATERIALS + an ever decreasing amount. CARS are very good value as the Labour content is eliminated.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes, but at least most others respected the patents while they were alive... not the Chinese.. and yeah - you can point to many western companies that have been done for patent rip offs.. biut that is the point. They don't get done for it in China.

[facthunter]

Effectively,the "patent" Concept  is dead. You might hear of it now and AGAIN with MUSIC., If you COPY something you don't know how critical the design may already be and come a cropper.  Chinese are ahead in many things so no need to copy any of the Fast Train and Battery stuff.  You have to innovate. Nev

[kgwilson]

All you have to do is copy something and change it a bit to improve something and you can throw the patent out the window. The Chinese make some of the worst cheap stuff you can buy but also some of the very best high quality products that are competitively priced. Xaiomis first electric car was so good even the CEO of Ford bought one on a trip to China and uses it as his daily drive.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-ceo-drives-chinese-electric-car-for-six-months-and-i-dont-want-to-give-it-up/

[facthunter]

You are ruining good stories with FACTS, kg. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

What was the fact? Work in IP law (in a jurisdiction that repects the laws and intenational treaties/covenants), and it is not that easy. Of course, it depends on the particular case as well and how the patent was granted. If you patent the object, it is easier; it you patent the concept, it becomes a lot harder to copy and slightly modify. Always get a good IP lawyer.

 

China (and other countried) don't respect IP law.. Never have and never will (but will aggressively defend theirs in jurisdictions that do - it's called legal arbitrage).

Edited October 3 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

The FACT WAS that It WAS a Bl@@dy GOOD CAR and the FORD Executive said so . The REALITY is that Most of what we now use is MADE IN CHINA. EVEN Trumps BIBLES. Costs $3 and he sells for $60.. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

So? I didn't say it wasn't.  was referring to the Chinese indifference to patent and IP laws... I didn't say it was a bad or cheap or crap car.  I said the Chinese have been ripping off others IP for years.. That is the FACT I was referring to.. Would that car have been as good if they didn't? I don't know.. that is SPECULATION.

 

And I don't recall talking about the cost, either.. Of course, if you're ripping off other's IP and doing it in a country that forces low costs.. of course the cost is going to be cheaper..

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Remember back in the 50s and 60s we accused Japan of that very same thing?

[onetrack]

China's major advantage is simply mass production abilities. I'm always staggered at the average Chinese factorys production capabilities. Individual starter motor factories can pump out 4,000 large industrial starter motors a WEEK. The same for turbocharger manufacturing - a single Chinese factory can produce multiple hundreds of turbochargers a week. When you consider the complexity and precision needed in a turbocharger, that's some major effort.

The Chinese have imported all the important manufacturing machinery from Europe or the U.S. - often with the European or American companies assistance, because they love selling stuff to China. The Chinese orders dwarf all other orders for these machine tool companies.

 

Chinese EV's are flooding the market and doubling their penetration efforts - because the Chinese Govt has encouraged over-production, and now they have new Chinese EV's filling warehouses and storage places everywhere. They have resorted to auctioning them online in China, and they are selling the cheapest models for as low as US$9000.

 

China knows it can dominate car manufacturing with their EV's, and they want a big slice of that huge pie and they will get it. The Korean and Japanese and European and American car manufacturers will either lose a big slice of their market share, or they will have to adopt Chinese EV technology into their products to sell them, the same as every other European, American, Japanese and Korean product is now often made in China. All Teslas sold in Australia are made in China - but the Chinese fully intend to make their Tesla copies cheaper, and just as attractive.

 

The Chinese will soon figure out how to crack the SUV market, which is where the real money is. Even though Toyota is the wealthiest and most highly regarded car manufacturer on the planet, they are about to get a swift kick in the goolies from Chinese cars, that will be directly attacking Toyotas stranglehold on the SUV and 4WD market.

 

What is advantageous for Australian buyers is the decline in U.S. sales for Chinese cars (due to Trumps tariffs) has improved the Chinese offerings available to us, as the Chinese seek to enter more markets to reduce their reliance on U.S. sales.

 

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/byd-to-unleash-new-model-rampage-99759