The Random thought thread

[Marty_d]

2 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It's hard to come to terms with the reasoning for that. Has your average 16 year-old got the analytical ability and experience to sort the wheat from the chaff of politcal campaigning? Just consider how many 32 year-olds lack those abilities and experiences. 

 

Does granting suffrage to 16 year-olds also mean that contract law will have to now allow them the enter into contracts? What about employment issues? If a person has the right to vote, which has always been a right of adults, does that mean that 16 year-olds must be paid at adult rates?

If you take replace "16 year-old" with "punter" in your first paragraph, the answer would be the same.

16yo's are probably more aware of political impacts on their future than current voters. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c93kkg37n3kt

[Marty_d]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/17/16-year-olds-vote-countries-turnout-political-change?CMP=share_btn_url

[old man emu]

57 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/17/16-year-olds-vote-countries-turnout-political-change?CMP=share_btn_url

I think that the most important thing one can take from the last paragraph of the above article is that "good and statutory education for all young peole makes a big difference".

 

How many of us, when we first voted in an election, voted the same way as our parents? Sort of like following thier religious preference.

[octave]

My understanding is that in the UK, voting is not compulsory.  I imagine that the 16-year-olds who did take up the option to vote would be those who take an interest in politics.  On the other end of the scale, my 92-year-old mother, who is in aged care, still votes, although she is totally unaware of what the issues are. 

 

In any case, I believe that the best thing for society is where as many people as possible take part, whether they are 92 or 16.  The priorities of the aged person and the young person probably overlap, but I am not sure my mother has firm opinions on the job market or the cost of education.  Younger folks may not be thinking much about aged care or the health system.  Both of these areas are important. 

 

I would favour lowering the voting age in this country to 16. It could even start by being optional for under-18s.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Young voters really need to learn about the consequences of voting, rather than just the "feel good" aspect of voting for a party they think will be on their side. If a muslim English Channel boat person rapes their girlfriend, and the party responsible was the party they voted for, they'll suffer extreme "voters remorse". So they should be made to study the policies of the various parties first before attending a polling booth. 16y/olds are too young to know how 40-60y/old candidates think deceptively. 

[nomadpete]

4 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

16y/olds are too young to know how 40-60y/old candidates think deceptively.

I agree with that. Which is why education is so important.

 

For instance, Instead of simply learning the dates of explorers or events, I would have benefitted greatly if I was also taught the political policies of the time - the background reasons for world events. Expecially with modern history. 

[facthunter]

In my opinion (as an ex-chalky)  kids ability to reason  and be aware of right and wrong and what is fair and what is not is greatly underestimated. They also have a natural curiosity about most things IF  it's not stifled. Getting them to get off their Mobile Phones might be a  Challenge. 16 or 18 I don't see it as a world changer or see an inevitable flow on effect. Certainly IF you are old enough to fight a war for your Country you SHOULD be able to vote.  Nev

[onetrack]

No, no and No. 16 yr olds are utterly brainless and it's a well known fact that teenagers brains are still developing, and don't actually fully develop until they're around 20.

Even then, there are plenty of brainless 20 yr olds. We don't let them drive on a full licence until they're 17, and I believe the voting age should stay at 18.

I wonder what the devious plan is behind this scheme?  A lot of young people brains are wrapped up in social media, the internet, "Influencers", gaming and other "electronic device" entertainment, and none of that bodes well for intelligent discourse, or intelligent choices on what direction they want the country to go in.

Social media "Influencers" would end up wielding enormous undemocratic voter influence.

[Marty_d]

I've got a 17yo son and a 15yo son. Neither of them are "brainless", in fact I think they may be smarter than me.

Look at the general population. There's 40yo's out there that you wouldn't trust to mop a floor. Old folks who don't know what century it is. People with ideas so weird you don't know how they manage to feed themselves. But all these people get to vote.

I don't have a problem lowering the voting age, but it's not on the agenda here, as far as I know.

[octave]

I suspect people who believe 16-year-olds are "brainless" have had some disappointment in raising their own children. 

 

[Litespeed]

Has long been a greens policy to lower the age to 16.

 

You can get a gun,join the military, drive, work full time at 16/17.

So why not vote?

 

In some USA states you can be a 3 year war veteran but not allowed to legally have a beer.

 

I think it's a great move.

 

We have a ridiculously low 12-14 years age of Adult crime sanctions. In that basis they should get to vote at 12 or 14 years. We seem happy to load teens with adult responsibility but not the benefit of a say.

Edited 20 hours ago by Litespeed

[onetrack]

Well, I don't have any children of my own, but I helped raise 3 nephews via living with the brother and SIL in the same house, for around 17 years.

Plus, I employed a lot of young people, 18 to 25 yr olds, and I spent a considerable amount of time "kicking arses", and berating them for idiotic juvenile behaviour - quite often combined with alcohol and teenage bravado in a group, of course.

 

But they'd do utterly stupid things at work, too - high levels of risk taking, against their training and instructions, poor decision-making, where you had to pull them up and point out how stupid or wasteful the last decision they took, was.

 

It was standard policy in interstate trucking to not hire truck drivers under the age of 25. It was always regarded in the industry that anyone under 25 lacked adequate responsibility and maturity to be let loose with a big semi-trailer, into outback and remote areas.

 

I still opine that a move to allow 16 yr olds to vote is either stupidity, or a clever plan to manipulate youthful, malleable voters.

 

My Dad had a saying he repeated regularly - "One boy is a good boy, Two boys is half a boy, and Three boys, is no boys at all!" In other words, juveniles in a group become even more brainless, than they are on their own.

[facthunter]

I think that it might be later than you say at about 23.  Brain  development stops. It STARTS at birth or perhaps a bit before. Knowledge is NOT intelligence. Kids at age 2 have life long personality traits evident. They can ride MX bikes well at 10 . Be world Gymnasts at 13. Be excellent chess players. Have High IQ's. people can be manipulated at any age. ASK Goebbels. Kids don't have their brains concerned  with amassing fortunes at a young age Unless some Influence has been on them. As I said earlier they have this wonderful curiosity about many things. Not just what will advantage them. They are really very special people and the future of the world is in their Hands. IF it lasts that long and that won't be their Fault.   Nev

[facthunter]

Large families help raise them selves. There's instances where a 12 year old has taken on the burden  when the Parents are not doing it.. Nev

[onetrack]

I personally think it's utter brainless stupidity to let kids ride powerful machines when they're 10 yrs old.

It shows the parents fail to understand childhood brain development. They lack experience, motor skills, fast reflexes, and mature decision-making processes in their brains.

Kids live in a fantasy world until they're about 8, how else can we adults fool them with Santa Claus stories up to that age?

 

I get angry when I see stupid Yanks getting their children to drive farm machinery at age 5 or 6, or letting them drive high-powered quad bikes at age 7.

 

It's a recipe for a multitude of child deaths and injuries - and over 300 kids are killed on American farms every year, thanks to farming parents brainlessness.

Would you let your 10 yr old drive a V8 powered car on the highways? Of course not, and authorities intelligently ban such stupidity.

We stopped child labour over 100 years ago because of the massive death toll of youngsters.

[octave]

2 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Plus, I employed a lot of young people, 18 to 25 yr olds, and I spent a considerable amount of time "kicking arses", and berating them for idiotic juvenile behaviour - quite often combined with alcohol and teenage bravado in a group, of course.

Perhaps there is a selection process here.  My experience with young people (other than my own and his peers) is teaching private music lessons for most of my working life.   I taught kids of various ages for over 35 years, and whilst not every student excelled, I can't think of many that I would describe as "brainless"   

 

Just like any group in society, there is a range of personality types, intelligences, etc.  Whilst some 16 year olds may not take the voting process seriously or not seek out the required information to make voting choices, this also applies to members of other groups.  Although my mother is not so cognitively with it or well informed, I still support her right to vote.

 

There is real-world data on this. Austria allowed voting from 16 in 2007.   I doesn't seem to me that this has had a disastrous effect on the country.

 

"In 2007, Austria became the first country to allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote in national elections, with the expanded franchise first being consummated in the 2009 European Parliament election. A study of young voters' behavior on that occasion showed them to be as capable as older voters to articulate their beliefs and to make voting decisions appropriate for their preferences. Their knowledge of the political process was only insignificantly lower than in older cohorts, while trust in democracy and willingness to participate in the process were markedly higher.^[14] Additionally, there was evidence found for the first time of a voting boost among young people age 16–25 in Austria.^[15]"

 

The earliest moves in Europe came during the 1990s, when the voting age for municipal elections in some States of Germany was lowered to 16. Lower Saxony was the first state to make such a reduction, in 1995, and four other states did likewise.^[13]

 

 

[facthunter]

Kids PRETEND to believe in Santa Claus. THAT WAY they keep getting presents. THEY aren't stupid.  Nev