Crikey it’s wet

[willedoo]

That bridge being out of action will have an impact for quite a while. I don't know what condition the old crossing is in these days, or whether it would take road trains. Photos of the bridge and the old crossing:

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by willedoo

[onetrack]

Willie, the old low-level concrete crossing is no longer accessible by vehicle, and it was gradually abandoned from 1974, when the new bridge was built.

 

I suspect the old crossing is probably undermined now, too - to the point where it's no longer capable of carrying serious loads.

 

However, Gascoyne Transport did haul semis across it to the North Kimberley with their old 2624 Mercs, from the early 1960's to 1974.

 

Very few road trains would have used the old crossing, except perhaps the cattle road trains servicing the stations and Broome, Wyndham and Derby.

 

 

 

I strongly suspect a new, higher and more substantial Fitzroy River Bridge might be on the drawing boards, and being allocated funds from the Govt road budget, right about now!

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by onetrack

[willedoo]

13 hours ago, onetrack said:

Willie, the old low-level concrete crossing is no longer accessible by vehicle, and it was gradually abandoned from 1974, when the new bridge was built.

 

I suspect the old crossing is probably undermined now, too - to the point where it's no longer capable of carrying serious loads.

 

However, Gascoyne Transport did haul semis across it to the North Kimberley with their old 2624 Mercs, from the early 1960's to 1974.

 

Very few road trains would have used the old crossing, except perhaps the cattle road trains servicing the stations and Broome, Wyndham and Derby.

 

 

 

I strongly suspect a new, higher and more substantial Fitzroy River Bridge might be on the drawing boards, and being allocated funds from the Govt road budget, right about now!

 

Thanks onetrack for that info. By the way, I've always had a soft spot for the old Turtles. I drove a 1418 for a while back in the 70's. I'd love to get hold of one and do it up.

[onetrack]

Willie, you'd be hard-pressed to find an old "turtle" in restorable shape today, although I have seen a couple of 1418's being offered up for resto in recent months.

[willedoo]

All the examples I've seen for sale are stuffed to the point where you'd be a brave man to take on a restoration.

[onetrack]

Check out the Fitzroy Crossing Inn in normal times, as against the photo taken yesterday! (photo courtesy of the West Australian newspaper).

 

Scroll through the photos with the RH arrows, until you come to the Google Street View on the 5th photo. Spin the View around 180° and move up the street and you'll see the Inn.

The dry Fitzroy River is in the background of the Street View! You can move further down the street to pick up a good view of the dry river bed!

 

https://www.google.com/travel/hotels/entity/CgoIhKHi6Lnfo4o5EAE/lightbox/CAoSLEFGMVFpcE5iVUJTUmhieDk3d1ppWURzYVBGUnpiMkZkSjBSdW1wQktLM2lH?g2lb=2502548%2C2503771%2C2503781%2C4258168%2C4270442%2C4284970%2C4291517%2C4306835%2C4597339%2C4718358%2C4723331%2C4731329%2C4757164%2C4814050%2C4861688%2C4864715%2C4874190%2C4879519%2C4886082%2C4886480%2C4893075%2C4902277%2C4903082%2C4905351%2C4906050%2C4920622%2C4926165%2C4926489&hl=en-AU&gl=au&ssta=1&grf=EmQKLAgOEigSJnIkKiIKBwjnDxACGAYSBwjnDxACGAcgADAeQMoCSgcI5w8QARgFCjQIDBIwEi6yASsSKQonCiUweDJjODE5ODY0ODhlYjg3OWQ6MHgzOTE0OGVmYjlkMTg5MDg0&rp=EISh4ui536OKORCEoeLoud-jijk4AkAASAHAAQI&ictx=1&sa=X&ved=0CAAQ5JsGahcKEwiA4pjUybD8AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAw&utm_campaign=sharing&utm_medium=link&utm_source=htls

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by onetrack

[old man emu]

Now a large section of the highway has been washed away. No road access.

 

The problems all over Australia could have been reduced by applying some forethought, especially in NSW. Throughout 2022 we saw unusually high amounts of rainfall in the headwater areas of the western-flowing rivers, leading to flooding near those areas. The water then started moving down each river and joining up with water from other rivers, increasing the flooding potential in the Darling and Murray. All that was done by the government agencies was to provide daily reports of river levels and issue evacuation warnings, and orders to leave when it became obvious that water levels would go above river banks. 

 

In olden days, when a villagers saw that their village was going to be attacked by a merciless enemy, they worked to set up barriers to defend the village. Even wagon trains crossing the Great Plains circled the wagons as a defensive move when the Indians came calling. The knowledge that the towns and villages along the Darling and Murray were in danger from the floodwater was known weeks before it arrived. Yet there are no reports of barriers being thrown up where they did not exist before. 

 

As a result, it has cost billions of dollars in lost goods and chattels and more to repair what hasn't been destroyed. There will no longer be the ability to share the future risk of financial in those villages and towns because the insurers won't take on a short-priced bet. They are the bookies, not the punters and their business model is to collect wagers against disaster and aim to keep the wagers and  profit when disasters do not occur.

 

All levels of government have responded poorly to this situation through lack of foresight and leadership.

 

NOTE: I am specifically omitting the flooding of Molong and Eugowra from this as they were the result of rain from massive isolated storm cells. Lismore's fault was that its people wanted to live in a river valley.

[onetrack]

Well, the flood disaster in the Kimberley has really grabbed the attention of our erstwhile leaders. Mark McGowan and Albo are currently doing a tour of the devastated areas to get a handle on the level of damage, and what is going to be needed for recovery.

 

The Fitzroy Crossing bridge is gone, absolutely buggered, and a higher and more robust bridge is now going to be needed. The worst part is, this is the main link between the Kimberley and the rest of W.A., so no freight will be able to be shipped by road for months between the two areas. They will have to revert to coastal shipping, and bring goods in and out through Wyndham.

 

Fortunately, Wyndham Port has reasonably good capabilities, but the transport of produce from around Kununurra (the Ord River irrigation area) to the Southern areas of W.A. is going to be badly impacted.

It might be time for the Govt to consider a better flood-proof route further inland, as an alternative route, even if it was just an unsealed road for the medium-term.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-09/anthony-albanese-mark-mcgowan-visit-kimberley-amid-wa-flooding/101836528

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=612006487591064&set=pcb.612022340922812

 

What is worse, is the Gt Northern Hwy has now also been cut South of Broome, as the floodwaters cover the Nullarbor-like Roebuck Plains. This type of flooding happened previously in Jan 2018, and the Gt Northern Hwy was closed for about 3 weeks, back then.

 

https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/about-main-roads/news-media/Kimberley-flooding/

 

https://travelmap.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Home/Map?fbclid=IwAR306_tIKH4qp1OoNT-6XZEnt0fN-0T-iMb6LNu4ZlTHB6XrVx41kCCYKdw

 

 

 

2018 Roebuck Plains flooding - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-02/kimberley-cut-off-after-highway-floods/9386352

[willedoo]

I recon they'll need to build a much stronger bridge at Fitzroy Crossing. I'm no bridge expert, but those tall skinny legs on the bridge look a bit flimsy for such an important logistic line. Maybe this time, spend more money and overbuild.

[Old Koreelah]

I agree, Willie. It’s a national artery of enormous strategic importance (so why don’t we have more than one, just in case?) We hear of convoys of trucks making a diversion equivalent to driving across Russia.

Perhaps relocate to a more viable crossing point, if there is one.

[onetrack]

The Fitzroy River bridge at Fitzroy Crossing was built in 1974. At 49 years, its lifespan was largely over, anyway. At the time, it was peak engineering. I'm sure they've got a new one on the drawing boards as we speak, it's not like the W.A. Govt is short of money at present.

 

The current heavy bridge designs here, designed to carry multiple-hundred tonne loads and multiple road trains, comprise massive pylons deeply anchored, and precast, pre-stressed concrete beams as the load-bearing members. Even then, MRWA take no chances, if you're moving a very heavy oversize load, pilot vehicles hold the traffic off the bridge while the heavy load travels across it, and the float is limited to 10-15kmh travel speed across the bridge.

 

The MRWA engineers worry that a heavy load travelling at speed, might impose too high a longitudinal load pressure wave on the pylons and make them move.

 

It's a bit like the Americans. When arranging to try and get heavy earthmoving equipment out of Arizona and Nevada to LA for shipping to Australia, I found out that the U.S. limits maximum Interstate Hwy loads to 55 tonnes. Anything bigger has to be dismantled.

But we haul up stuff that's up to 500 and 600 tonnes on our highways! - in one piece! But we do generally keep off bridges with that kind of weight, though.

 

When I said to the dealer, with regard to U.S. Interstate load limits, "I thought America had the best highways in the world?". He grinned and said, "They do - and they intend to keep them in that condition!"

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by onetrack

[facthunter]

It will dry out pretty quickly. The centre of Australia has always behaved much the same. Being the North West there's plenty of hot maritime air to keep pouring water till the system moves away.. It MAY happen again next year or not for 100 years. Railways suffer the same sort of damage in sand..   Nev

[onetrack]

This aerial view of the Fitzroy River bridge shows the extent of the destruction. Not only is the bridge destroyed, there's a massive section of embankment and highway leading up to it, gone, too.

 

The smarter engineers currently design bridges in the North with massive dedicated floodways each side of the bridge, as circuit-breakers for extreme flood events. There's a long low section each side of the bridge which is sheeted with rip-rap rock each side, and designed to carry water over it.

The design is such that the depth of water over the floodway can never reach a depth of more than say about 600-800mm, and they are hundreds of metres wide.

 

This arrangement effectively operates like a spillway, carrying the excess volume of water away, that the bridge would not be able to handle - and the width and shallowness of the water going over the floodway ensures it has no gouging power.

 

They failed to provide a floodway for the Fitzroy River bridge here, and now the error of their design has shown up.

 

 

[old man emu]

W

11 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The smarter engineers

What do you know now that you didn't in 1974? What reliable rainfall data did the engineers have in 1974? You can't say that they got it wrong. They got it "best possible under the circumstances". 49 years' faithfull service can't be called a stuff up.

[facthunter]

Plenty of parts of Australia have been impassable in times of flood. This one was the biggest  rainfall ever recorded. It will help replenish the aquifers.  IF we can expect more frequent extreme conditions, and that is a distinct possibility, more $$$'s may have to be found.. Having only ONE route is a problem but we do  have planes and  ships etc fortunately.  The area around Darwin supplies Australia with produce where as in the 60's most stuff they consumed was transported to there.. Nev

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

This arrangement effectively operates like a spillway, carrying the excess volume of water away, that the bridge would not be able to handle - and the width and shallowness of the water going over the floodway ensures it has no gouging power...

Better design. Authorities often have to resist calls to build levees to protect low-lying communities. It’s a choice between shallow water right across the natural floodplain or constricted flow that speeds up and builds water up metres deeper than they expect.

 

[facthunter]

Levees slow the flow and annoy people upstream and if they fail it's  sudden.. People pump water out onto others land too which doesn't win friends.  Nev.

[onetrack]

I'm not saying the engineers in 1974 got it wrong - but they were short-sighted in not planning for protection from extreme floods.

 

I would hazard a guess they more constricted in 1974, financially - and bridge planning back then, only covered 1 in 100 year floods. This flood is certainly more like a 1 in 200 year flood.

However, with greater foresight and better planning, and by spending a bit more money, I'd say we can build a new bridge in this location that will last more than 49 years, and which will include the ability to handle 1 in 200 year floods without major damage - as well as cope with road trains and heavy loadings.

 

There are any number of old bridges in other parts of the world that have survived for multiple hundreds of years, including some Roman bridges. The oldest reinforced concrete bridges are in excess of 120 years old, and the only reason a lot are no longer in use, is because traffic loadings (and speeds) have increased enormously in the motoring age.

 

 

[old man emu]

I dare say that engineers and draughtsmen are head down, arse up in Perth designing the bridge components and the guvment bean counters are preparing information packs for the tender process for the making of the bridge components. No actual work can be done on the ground until The Dry, but I wonder of aerial surveying using Lidar can hurry up the process of deciding on new paths for the roads and the extent of the associated floodway works.

[onetrack]

Satellite imagery is a big thing in planning today, it makes planning so much easier - especially when very recent imagery can be overlaid onto earlier imagery. They can get imagery as recent as the last 24 hours.

I think, long term, the Govt has to look at a route to the North that is further inland, and out of the Fitzroy River basin and bed. The Fitzroy River starts up in the Mitchell plateau, North of Fitzroy Crossing, and the catchment extends East to Halls Creek.

But the Gt Northern Hwy runs right through the centre of the Fitzroy River basin, and as result, it is captive to Fitzroy River flooding. To make the Gt Northern Hwy floodproof, it really needs to be moved to the South West of the Fitzroy River basin, and avoid the basin completely.

I can't see that happening for a long time to come, as it would mean a major investment in a new highway for perhaps over 700-800 kms, and it would have to bypass Broome, Derby and Fitzroy Crossing.

 

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/150814/flooding-along-australias-fitzroy-river

 

https://www.water.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/9678/115160.pdf

[Old Koreelah]

Good point, OT. I guess it’s part of the perennial debate: should the highway be an express route between two major centres, or connect all the little places in between? (That also applies to the new Inland Rail in the eastern states.)

 

The road through the Old Koreelah valley where I grew up crosses numerous creeks; the cost of building, maintaining and replacing all those bridges is humungous. On the other side of the creek an old pioneer’s road runs parallel, with narry a bridge; but it doesn’t connect with local farms, so it fell into disuse generations ago.

[red750]

[facthunter]

Be harder to get bridging finance soon.  Nev

[red750]

 

The mooning gargoyle of Freiburg minster. 

[facthunter]

That's  a "Dire Rear". for certain. Nev