rankamateur Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The reason most churches take that line is because if people stopped believing in god, they'd see churches as unnecessary, and their goes their income. And their paternal domination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Can we clear up some definitions being thrown around here please? The word THEORY According to the National Academies of Sciences, "some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time. Theories also allow scientists to make predictions about as yet unobserved phenomena". Laws of Science Laws differ from scientific theories in that they do not posit a mechanism or explanation of phenomena: they are merely distillations of the results of repeated observation. For example, Newtons 3 laws of motion. Newton didn't invent gravity, but be posited a theory of gravity to explain observations. His laws are a mathematical description of observed behaviour. As to whether laws are discovered or invented, go talk to a good scientific philosopher. I personally think laws are discovered, but the maths behind them is an "invention". Boyle's Laws describe gaseous behaviour, but gases were behaving this way since the big bang, hence the 'discovery' of the law was possible. The invention (for want of a better term) component was a mathematical method of describing the law. And of course, new theories and laws pop up all the time, which is where the religious brethren amongst us differ from those of a scientific bent, in that the bible cant change, no matter what the evidence, or the use of Tony Abbottesque verbal gymnastics. Hey by the way Turbs, where is this proof about evolution being wrong that you promised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 In which post? You'll have to forgive me, I've started to get used to the tactics being used on the engine threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 We need a Law of Tactics then. Laws of "physics " as far as they go alter nothing that existed before they were "discovered". The way things happen doesn't wait for us to define it. We try to express them in a way that enables us to deal with them mathematically and conceptually We know the force of gravity between two bodies is proportional to their mass(es) and the distance between them, but we have no idea where the force comes from. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The way things happen doesn't wait for us to define it. Is this not why we still have millions of people still literally believing every word that was translated into the bible. It was written in a time when Joe Public had questions about why things were the way he observed, but absolutely no scientific knowledge to answer his questions. Any scientific knowledge was closely guarded by the clergy to maintain control of the population, even four hundred years ago the scientists and the clergy were quite often the same people. Now that more of the population have scientific knowledge and use the their enquiring minds to answer there own questions of wonder, less need to ingest the retail packaged explanation written for an earlier time, the transition is not yet complete. In the mean time we will continue fighting to the death in the name of which ever God our leaders proclaim to be the only and right one, without regard for the enemy believing they are fighting the same unifying and righteous fight in a different name of the same God, teaching them answers to the same question of wonder that they ask themselves, but not stopping to think of the answers for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 We need a Law of Tactics then.We know the force of gravity between two bodies is proportional to their mass(es) and the distance between them, but we have no idea where the force comes from. Nev Gravitons Nev. It's gravitons all the way down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Horsefeathers, Perhaps I could believe (gravi ounces)? ranka, One would have thought that with more knowledge, more enlightenment would follow for the masses. We also have communications ability no one would have dreamed of just 30 years ago. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 .....(gravi ounces)?...... Nev Perhaps you mean Onion Gravy?, and remembering my mum's gravy, it could congeal and bind just about anything in the known universe. Maybe you're on to something there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I remember now Horsefeathers, I'm studying DNA, will get there but have two big projects and some face to face work on other matters to get out of the way first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Sooo ....... After much chuckling and deep thought (enjoying this thread immensely) I summarise the preceeding thousands of posts by saying ... There are some who question the theory of evolution (in spite of the supporting evidence) There are some who even question the theory of gravity (in spite of the supporting evidence) There are some who question the theory of there being a god or gods There are some who question written history But this discourse will go on forever. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The only real problems come from folk who try to force their belief onto others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 You've probably got it about spot on nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The only real problems come from folk who try to force their belief onto others ... or criticise others for their belief or lack of belief, as the case may be... rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Didn't we come in here? #1463. How many more? I'm learning what eternity means. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 RGMWA, I hope you weren't suggesting my post was criticising any belief. Quite the opposite. My point was simply that other people's beliefs are none of my concern, so long as nobody makes my life difficult/unpleasant by their actions. Actions are motivated by belief. most persecution on this planet seems to be a result of 'out of control' beliefs - most often these are political or religious beliefs. I have been in the company of religious evangelists and athiest "evangelists" and political "evangelists'. None of these were particularly good company. However, I have no reason to change their views (beliefs) to match my own. This does not mean that I am lacking spiritual beliefs. Just that they are my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 So far I've learned a bit about alternative views of history, evolution and physics, had some typing practice, and remain none the wiser when it comes to religion and the answer to Everything. Has anyone else done any better or joined the opposing team yet? rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 RGMWA, I hope you weren't suggesting my post was criticising any belief. Quite the opposite. My point was simply that other people's beliefs are none of my concern, so long as nobody makes my life difficult/unpleasant by their actions. Actions are motivated by belief. most persecution on this planet seems to be a result of 'out of control' beliefs - most often these are political or religious beliefs.I have been in the company of religious evangelists and athiest "evangelists" and political "evangelists'. None of these were particularly good company. However, I have no reason to change their views (beliefs) to match my own. This does not mean that I am lacking spiritual beliefs. Just that they are my own. No, not at all NP. I totally agree with you. All I was saying is that the problems occur when people try to force their beliefs onto others (as you said), or when they won't accept that others may have different beliefs, including no belief (religious or otherwise). rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 So far I've learned a bit about alternative views of history, evolution and physics, had some typing practice, and remain none the wiser when it comes to religion and the answer to Everything. rgmwa The answer is 42. This is on the wall of the restaurant at the end of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The answer is 42. This is on the wall of the restaurant at the end of the universe. Yes, I saw it there too KG, but I still don't know what it means. :( rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Yes, I saw it there too KG, but I still don't know what it means. :(rgmwa Me neither, but it is the answer so I just moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 So far I've learned a bit about alternative views of history, evolution and physics, had some typing practice, and remain none the wiser when it comes to religion and the answer to Everything. Has anyone else done any better or joined the opposing team yet?rgmwa About a thousand posts ago (is that one KiloPost?), someone changed their viewpoint by 180 degrees after watching a single SBS program ....that's all it took. As to whether anyone has moved from Atheism to Christianity since this thread started: it is most likely that they are doing what NomadPete suggested back in post No #1464, i.e., they're keeping it to themselves: ...I have been in the company of religious evangelists and athiest "evangelists" and political "evangelists'. None of these were particularly good company. However, I have no reason to change their views (beliefs) to match my own. This does not mean that I am lacking spiritual beliefs. Just that they are my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 ...I've been watching China's awesome progress, but didn't know she had a supersonic passenger service to the Top End. I just spent 3 days in the "Top End", what an awesome place although a bit barren. Beautiful clear blue skies, amazing landscapes and the friendliest people one could hope to meet, but it was -8 to -14 everyday! Qahar Youyi Qianqi, Inner Mongola. I have now seen my first frozen river and frozen lake too! 113.2, 40.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As to whether anyone has moved from Atheism to Christianity since this thread started: it is most likely that they are doing what NomadPete suggested back in post No #1464, i.e., they're keeping it to themselves: You're probably right 8okts, and I expect all the Christian to Athiest converts are probably doing the same. Which reminds me, Gnu's been a bit quiet lately. I wonder .... rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Don't stir things. "Blessed are the peacemakers". Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Don't stir things. "Blessed are the peacemakers". Nev No, it's the "Cheesemakers" - or any dairy products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Sects! Sects! Sects! It's all you Monks think about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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