turboplanner Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Or your attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The pension is tested here.. In UK everybody, even the queen gets it. There aren't many jobs for people at 65 plus generally so how does one exist once the GFC ruins your super, (even if you had any) as happened to a lot.? The Old age pension is not enough to live on for most people and they struggle to pay their way constantly. They do a lot of unpaid community work that you don't hear about and are grandparents that are great for the grandkids and others. You can't measure everything in money terms. Australia is one of the richest countries on the earth, per capita income , but we are now pretty mean spirited to a lot of our own, and overseas aid reduced. Is this so we can own even bigger houses and more cars and think that will make "happiness"? The aim of advertising is to make you believe you need MORE. That you are a failure if you don't own a European Luxury car, and then once you have it, it must be always the latest model , or people will think you are going bad, and so on. IF that's all it is, let me off so I can seek something more meaningful and personal . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Oh forgot to mention , i work in Dalby ,west of Brisbane 2.5 to 3 hrs and they could not get anyone to take the jobs on offer , sometimes you have to change your life style to reap the benifits cherrs Gareth Explains a lot of the attitude really... Mining I am guessing... Those of us with real jobs are subsiding your unrealistic lie..fstyle sorry to say it Gareth...But hey...it's all good...as long as you get yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Evans Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Exactly, Doug. We get the politicians we deserve and we get far too many of them. We live in a wonderful country called Australia and we cling to the anachronistic notion of individual autonomous states, each with its own bigotry and parochialism, while our total national population doesn't add up to that of one state in the USA. Do away with the States and introduce national and regional government...get rid of local governments, too. Cut the number of politicians in half to. allow us to offer a decent salary to those who then win majority votes. Leaves enough over to pay better pensions to those in the community who need them, too. I'll be 70 in a few weeks OME. Nearly 20 years ago I was in the middle of a humongous breakdown and thought I'd never work again. I tried to ensure that by making a couple of rather stupid attempts to end my life. Someone reached out and made me feel worthwhile again and for that I am very grateful. I commenced a whole new career (law) and now work. 50+ hours per week trying to sort the legal issues of the most vulnerable in our community. Pay is a bit ordinary but, hey, I'm working. And I get a lot of satisfaction from doing it. Hang in there mate. Get out and talk to people. Build networks. Show you are interested. Think about starting a small business yourself. A job will happen. Best wishes Kaz I have a small bobcat bussiness and am trying to make end meet but even there the gov is pulling us down with all the red tape and tax & bull---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Doug, if you're making 1% on sales you're doing ok by comparison with many large businesses in the automotive field. Many small businesses just don't allow for overheads, depreciation, repairs and maintenance etc so when a breakdown occurs that's then end of their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 As a nation we have become uncompetitive in the world with very high labour costs and very low productivity. I do not have access to the details (facts) but even if it is half true, labourers working on the Bangaroo project nominally earn around 55k but with all of the allowances, extra holidays & topups for various reasons apparently they can earn between 120 & 150k a year. It isn't any wonder that our manufacturing industry has all but disappeared. We have become the world's quarry & if the revenue from mining disappeared, we'd be in instant major recession. I took a year off in 2005 after engineering a redundancy & then tried to get a job. Admittedly I was living on the Sunshine Coast & did not want to move elsewhere. I was overqualified for almost all of the offerings with salaries less that half of what I'd been earning. I never even got an interview. I thought about changing my CV to dumb my qualifications, knowledge & experience down but then decided that would be dishonest. The answer was simple. If you can't get a job, buy one, so I did. I bought a run down Aluminium Fabrication business & built it up. I made just over 50 cents an hour in the first 6 months & by the end of the first year managed to put 20k in to Super. A year later that went to over 120k. The 2008 GFC saw a lot of the cashed up residents in the Noosa area instantly close their wallets but by then we'd diversified & had a lot of builders & Body Corps as clients so this saw us through. I was lucky. Since the GFC things have stagnated on the eastern seaboard, while those involved in mining in the fly in- fly out situation are doing very well. Quite a few people in my town do this as there is no work here & 2 of my ex employees now work in the coal seam gas industry west of Toowoomba. I sold up in 2010 & became a self funded retiree, moved south where living within a stones throw of the beach was affordable & there was an airfield within 30 minutes drive & began building an aircraft & became an SES volunteer. Our needs are relatively simple & I do not need a new car every year like some struggling families seem to want. Attitudes have to change. We are living beyond our means. Eventually the house of cards will come crashing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The pension is tested herey so how does one exist once the GFC ruins your super, (even if you had any) as happened to a lot.? Superannuation which was share based has not been ruined. The S&P 500 for example is running around all time historic ties, so those finds should have totally recovered to pre GFC levels. Where there was a real estate component in them, I 'm not sure because I haven't been looking at real estate figures. The superannuations which were ruined were ruined were because people who subscribed to 40 year share based super took their money out because they thought the share market was crashing, so they have no chance of getting it back. Having said that, the policy of a "pesnion" for the whole of retirement based on a fluctuating financial market just doesn't make sense. In the case of the previous paragraph, those who left their money in, had virtually no interest for five years, and some had to reduce the principle, which now means lower interest earnings to live on. The key reason for this problem, and the medical crisis is that we are now living substantially longer than we were 50 years ago where a fixed Government pension was assured. In fact some of the people bitching in this forum would have been dead and wouldn't need a job since most males popped off in their 50's and 60's. In the 50's, the ratio of the number of people in the workforce vs those on the pension and government subsidies was great enough that pensions could easily be afforded by the country. The ratio has now severely reduced, non-pension government subsidies have massively expanded and if the trend continues there will not be such a thing as a pension because the workers can't afford the income tax. So Super, or self-funded retirement was seen as the answer. Much of this generation's older people are suffering because it wasn't around for most of their working lives, so their Fund at retirement is nowhere near enough, but the next generation will have paid subscriptions for their entire working life, so should live well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 We don't have low productivity except wages related with third world countries. Forget your business if this negativity for internal political [urposes,keeps going. and wages do drop as a recession is a guaranteed result.. People have the money but are holding onto it. Money held in Super is enormous. Australia's main problem is the high dollar ( because of the mining mainly). There is no level playing field internationally. Giant subsidies exist in many markets. It's well know that a lot of aust management is mediocre. and shifting taxable income offshore is an internationally recognised problem. Trade agreements are not always good for us, and can be a real trap giving large companies power over elected governments. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 And while we are talking about wasting billions, let's think about the billions wasted by the Howard/Costello/Abbott government ... And don't forget to mention signing up Oz to the Iraq MkII fiasco. How many billions and how many lives (westerners and Iraqis) did that lay waste to? Now the current crop of indolents wants an RC into the pink batts scheme that killed 4 people due to the greed of some dodgy contractors and that is somehow Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard's personal responsibility. But if we have the RC into that, then we BETTER have an RC into Iraq MKII and those pesky missing WMDs that the governments here, in the UK and in Washington ALL knew didn't exist and let's DO lay the blame for that right at the feet of W's deputy, J.W.Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Explains a lot of the attitude really... Mining I am guessing... Those of us with real jobs are subsiding your unrealistic lie..fstyle sorry to say it Gareth...But hey...it's all good...as long as you get yours... Winsor68, You get out of life what you put in, I have worked in the oil & gas industry for the last 20 years, 10 of that I haven't been home as I have worked equal time and sacrificed a lot for the income I earn, it is ok to have a crack at someone who is prepared to be away from home 1/2 their life and sacrifice birthdays, weddings, kids school things to give their family a better life. Yeah I am all for as long as I get yours I Bl**dy earn it mate while your sleeping in your bed every night. And what is your real job compared to mine????, bet your not out in the p!ssing rain & hail offshore in 60kt winds drilling for oil & gas or out there in 50 + degree heat in the desert like I am now that allows YOU put petrol in your car and keep you and your family warm and toasty of a night. I sacrifice my time and my families lifestyle for you to enjoy your luxuries, the stuff doesn't come from the bowser mate or the stove or heater, it comes from the efforts of others. Yeah I earn a shit pile of money alright and don't feel one bit of guilt about it while your at home every night with your family & friends around you. See that thing in my Avatar, I would never have had the opportunity to buy that if from not a lot of sacrifice from me and my family. Still like to know what your real job is also compared to mine and others living the dream & the sacrifice. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth lacey Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hi Windsor no , we are fabrication shop lots of diversified work, some mining yes but a small part of the business, i am not being subsidided by anyone , they pay the same workshop rates as Brisbane, they cannot attract supervisors, project managers, engineers, and workshop managers on the same money as Brisbane , hence the salary is much better than there. my son who is a leading hand boilermaker is in the gas /oil /mining industry and yes they get great dollar , but as a percentive of the workforce overall they are a quite small part of the workforce, to attract workers to work 21 days ,10 to 12 hrs a day in the 5o degree heat 7 days R&R (not paid) they get good incentives and they pay 45% in tax , so who is subsidising who?Do i see an element of jealosy creeping in here ,the guy who cuts the grass and cleans up is on 150k per year, so the jobs are there for older people ,mindset problems,lifestyle changes do take adjusting to ,if you are fit and healthy is there any reason not to keep on working , a plane is a toy , like boats , caravans etc costs money , but hey we can all go on the rock n roll, stagnate , watch tv all day and still blame the government , thats my take on it , like it or not you cannot always have your cake and eat it. cheers gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I have a small bobcat bussiness and am trying to make end meet but even there the gov is pulling us down with all the red tape and tax & bull---- Do you enjoy doing one days work a month for the Tax Office, for nothing, while you should be playing with your kids or grandkids. They always ask how much time I have spent completing the form every month, but they have never sent me payslip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 who introduced the GST, that takes an vast amount of time every month? Those bloody socialist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 who introduced the GST, that takes an vast amount of time every month? Those bloody socialist? Same government who are trying to sell government owned assets which do not work, here is an interesting video of what the Libs in Vic did selling the SECV to private consortiums in the interest of the public (yeah right devastated the Latrobe Valley which still has not recovered) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The GST was introduced by HOWARD.. Keating toyed with the idea before that. Howard at least took it to an election despite many of his party urging him to not do so, but spring it on after they got in. Quite a few of his side of politics missed out on being elected because of his actions, but at least he was upfront about it. I'm not a particular admirer of Howard but facts are there on this one. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ask the Australian Democrats how the GST worked out for them. Can't see the minor parties in the senate backing Abbott's government. I remember the GST came in and we went from spending $500 a year at the accountants to over $3000 and spent a huge amount of time rewriting software systems to make us tax collectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's a blunt instrument, targeting the poorer sections of society and with a lot of work to collect it. Passing of it finished the democrats when they negotiated concessions and lost membership support. It makes everybody a tax collector who is in the system. I think it's 17% in the UK exports are exempted, but the paperwork is considerable. I'm not a fan of it. Taxation at the wholesale point with selective rates is better targeted It just adds to the price of GOODS and SERVICES and as proposed will be broadened out and probably rate increased. I can't see how it helps businesses especially restaurants which just has a price hike that is obvious and may reduce business activity in that sector. They were talking of charging it for the value of living in your OWN house. Brave New World? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 My message to younger people starting in the workforce is be prepared for change and have the desire to re-invent yourself when needed. This also applies at any age as evidenced by the success stories in previous posts. No matter what your political beliefs are, living in Australia provides the opportunity to succeed. If you are of average intelligence, possess reasonable health and have the motivation to do it you can. The key is accepting CHANGE, whether that be for study, re-location, different hours, taking on risk or whatever it takes. The alternative is to do nothing and complain about it. Then nothing will surely change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 GST is a good way to ensure that the end user pays tax. The problem in Australia is that there are so many confusing exemptions, it is accountants who are the main benefactors (other than the Government). GST should have replaced stamp duty as it was supposed to and as it did in NZ where there are no exemptions & quarterly returns are simple so Accountants don't get any extra cream. The State system ensures that the States get their cake & eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A better tax base would be on financial transactions, the rich pay there fair share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 [ The jobs for whatever reason (especially when you get into my age bracket) are simply not there... If the jobs are not there, maybe we should create our own work. There is so much that needs to be done. As Turboplanner said, "...My advice is to look for the off beat jobs." So often I see younger people making the same stuff-ups we did long ago. What we need is a mechanism for age and experience to be able to assist youth and enthusiasm. Other cultures have that built-in; we discard our aged workers and all their accumulated expertise. Our generation has so much accumulated expertise that we should not be tossed on the scrapheap. All we lack is the energy and good health to work full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The GST was introduced by HOWARD.. Keating toyed with the idea before that. Howard at least took it to an election despite many of his party urging him to not do so, but spring it on after they got in. Quite a few of his side of politics missed out on being elected because of his actions, but at least he was upfront about it. I'm not a particular admirer of Howard but facts are there on this one. Nev Fact check. PM Howard didn't actually take the GST to an election. He promised there would never ever be a GST after the idea copped a pizzling in the media and Hawke got an extra term. Howard then won office big time. He introduced the GST when he got a second term and told us his promise only applied to the first term of government. I was farming then and found the whole thing beyond me because I had been very ill so had to pay for an accountant to do all the returns. More time, more red tape and a lot more costs. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I beg to differ Kaz. He copped a lot of backlash from his own side for doing it and lost seats. I have NO reason whatever to speak well of Howard but I follow politics a fair bit. Any one could be wrong as I may be here but don't feel so in this instance. he did say "never ever" and it was hung on him many times since. That was years before . Your view reflects the common Labor view of it. which I do not agree with. I hate arguing for Howard but that is what I strongly believe happened. He declared a change of policy BEFORE the election and suffered for it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Rember what Ms Thather stated, I don't remember her exact words but roughly stated was "socialism doesn't work because sooner or later spending other people's money fails when the money runs out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Capitalists spend other peoples money. They don't use their own. If it works, they make dough. If it doesn't work they don't lose theirs, they lose yours for you. I didn't like Margaret Thatcher even at her prime so I don't regard her sayings to be very meaningful in any assessment of the virtues of either system of which there are many variants. Corruption is not controlled effectively in either system, which guarantees failure of either. The true answer may be someplace else or there be no answer in simple terms. Nothing is absolute and compromise and fairness is required, surely. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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