Where's me job, M Rabbott?

[Bubbleboy]

Id love to do so.... But having enough cash saved up to try is a real stumbling block...

Have you got a car and box trailer? Five years ago with $1000 I decided I wanted to work for myself so leased a mower, whipper snipper and blower and door knocked and now have a good business with my own terms and earning more than I was as an Undertaker or Correctional Officer. Im over people thinking its the Govt responsibility to find them a job. Not aimed at you OME but a general observation. Recently I advertised for someone to contract to me as I have too much work. You wouldnt believe the clowns who I received replies from. Most couldnt string two words together or had no communication skills. In 27 years I have never had a problem finding work. Im polite, know how to speak to a customer and do a good job the first time.

 

Scotty

 

 

[alf jessup]

I'll probably end up at bunningsAt least not far to go to work

Mark,

 

Bunnings would be better than nothing at all, plenty of the younger generation don't want to work and want it all, they think it is their god given right for us the tax payer to support them.

 

Everyone has the opportunity to work if they really want it but some just don't want to start at the bottom rung,

 

I must admit it is daunting thought once you get past 50 as people struggle to get gainful employment as some companies think you are past the use by date which is not the case.

 

I would be happy to work at Bunnings if I was out of work as for me work no matter what it is gives me self esteem and a worth in life.

 

Note: I am no way having a go at you in any way as I do not know you or know your situation, I am just passing comment in general.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[coljones]

Mark,

....

 

Snip snip snip

 

plenty of the younger generation don't want to work and want it all, they think it is their god given right for us the tax payer to support them.

 

snip snip snip

 

.........

 

Cheers

 

Alf

I look around me and I don't see an awful lot of younger people living it up on the dole.

 

What I see are quite a lot of driven young people faced with enormous pressures to acquire money to do things like pay off their acquired education debts and save up for a home in an economy where house prices and rents have blown through the roof.

 

Quite a lot of them are under-employed and are really skating along on the edge.

 

If they could get more work they would.

 

If they could get more paid overtime they would but in quite a lot of cases the only overtime available is compulsory and unpaid and if you don't like it don't come Monday.

 

If you live in a country town it is even harder as the cost of moving to the big smoke to look for work is even harder.

 

Quite a lot of companies don't see recruiting staff as an investment in the firm's future but as a commodity that can be turned on and off like a tap

 

I am just passing comment in general.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Have a look at the actual statistics Col rather than urban myth with just a few exceptions, mainly geographic, or as you point out, in some country areas.

 

 

[Robert1]

Yes and a retirement age of 70 will really help the younger ones get into a job

 

 

[kaz3g]

The number of employed persons is flat lining but the numbers looking for work is increasing as young people attempt to enter the workforce and aged persons try to get work because they now find they can't survive on their savings and current benefits.

 

The dumping of so many jobs onto the market in Victoria is going to have a massive impact on our Victorian economy. 50,000 less people spending their wages on their living needs will see many more also struggling as businesses, large and small attempt to compensate.

 

This has many other flow-on effects. When people lose their jobs they often also lose considerable self-esteem. They become depressed and psychologically unable to devote energy to the search for work. They become physically unwell. Many look to alternatives to replace their occupation with work and the social contacts it provided, and commence abusing alcohol and other drugs. It's a downhill spiral.

 

This is why communities such as mine experience higher levels of crime, especially property and violence, including family violence. We have a quarter of our population in the working age group receiving benefits. We have one of the highest unemployment rates in the State. And one of the highest crime and family violence rates, too.

 

We have the largest Aboriginal population outside of Melbourne in the State. Do you know that Aboriginal people are 16 times more likely to be imprisoned than white people? That Aboriginal kids are 26 times more likely to be involved in the Criminal Justice System? That the rates of imprisonment of women in Victoria has increased hugely in just 3 short years and almost all of them have a history as victims of family violence, sexual abuse and mental health? That more than three quarters of imprisoned people in this State have significant, diagnosable mental illnesses?

 

Remember when our mental health institutions were all closed down so people would have a better life living in the community? Now they are homeless and have little access to services instead because Government sold off the assets for hundreds of millions (think Kew Asylum and the value of its 200 acres of grounds and the entire suburb of Bundoora which was once the farms of Mont Park, Janefield and Larundel Institutions). OR they are in gaol!

 

Around Shepparton, where I live and work, our dairy industry processing capacity shrunk hugely during the drought. Our farmers sold water entitlements to put food on the table and are now left as dryland producers with savagely reduced outputs. Our fruit growers were just recovering when SPC closed several factories and announced it would be unable to accept fruit for processing from many of them. Trees have been pulled and generations of effort lost. Those who relied on fruit picking for work are now unable to find alternatives.

 

Our kids are less educated than the average because the schools are tired and have little modern infrastructure to attract them. Our TAFE has been emasculated and no longer offers many of the courses that were once available. Apprenticeships are just about non-existent and local tradespeople have been laid off by local landmark firms to be replaced by itinerant workers on temporary skills visas at third world rates.

 

And we now have 12 yo kids prostituting themselves for "ice" .

 

The saddest thing has been the abuse of the facts by politicians of both persuasions. Local MP Sharman Stone has been outspoken about this and bloody good on her. She has put the facts out there to the undoubted detriment of her own career but to her undying credit as a fierce advocate for the Goulburn Valley.

 

She brought the discussions back to the human face of this tragedy...something far more important that political point scoring.

 

Some here might ponder these thoughts while re-reading some of the posts on this topic above.

 

Kaz

 

Employed Persons

 

 

Unemployment Rate

 

 

 

[old man emu]

Whoa!!!

 

My intention when I started this thread was to comment on the lack of readily available work. I just used the title I did because I knew it would stir a hornets' nest. Not wrong there.

 

However, despite which side of politics you barrack for, the fact remains that it is not easy to walk into a job these days. Even up until the middle of the last decade, you stood a chance of picking up some work merely by presenting yourself and being prepared to come and work each day. Now it is in the service industries that jobs can be found. Yes, I could do a BubbleBoy did, and start mowing lawns, but his body is not as worn out as mine.

 

I did some course that allows me to test the safety of electrical appliances and leads. Work, Health and Safety laws throughout Australia require these tests to be done regularly. However, you try to convince a small business to part with about $400 every year to comply with the law. Since W,H&S inspectors don't police the law, what's the point in businesses doing it? The same applies to some other things I've done courses for. I've come across many businesses in aviation and elsewhere where a someone has set up a business based on trade or technical skills, but hasn't spent the time to prepare a management plan to act as a guide to running their business. Despite being very good at carrying out their core business, these business don't thrive because there is no system in place to monitor and improve them. I could run up something for these businesses for around $500 that would soon be recouped by bigger profits. But these operators can't see past next Friday.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[johnm]

OME - become a christian (if you are n't one already) and sell second hand cars (a great business plan for any bank)

 

........................ it'll be a briliant way for a 'foot in the door' and anyone should make a mint

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Kaz...you spoke a lot of wise words there but I must say Im not in agreeance with your statement of the high number of Aboriginal folk in Gaol. I work in Corrections and every inmate that walks in the front gate gets asked "do you identify as Aboriginal?". They are not as silly as they look and they know they get a hell of a lot more given to them in Gaol if they identify as Aboriginal so the stats are not a true reflection I can assure you. They dont have to prove it and they know it.

 

OME...I will let you in to a little secret. Over the past few years I was diagnosed with severe Osteoporosis. My specialist told me I have the spine of someone in their 80's. At age 42 thats not a particularly good thing. I could plead I am a cripple and claim a sickness pension like a lot of other bludges do in this country. On average I can mow 8 lawns a day at around $55 - $66 a lawn. You do the math on that and even if you did 4 a day, your overheads are bugger all, you are your own boss and with the Tax perks you would have a little spending money. We have met and I know you have a brain, just dont fall in to the pity party that our generous welfare system encourages. You can do it mate!

 

Scotty

 

 

[kaz3g]

Unfortunately, the references attached to this as footnotes haven't copied across to the forum post but the major source is the ABS census data which is readily verifiable.

 

Anyone silly enough to mis-identify themselves as Aboriginal heading into gaol will soon get sorted by the others as family lines and relationships are part of their culture.

 

 

Quick facts on incarcerated women and other Australians – February 2014

 

An unprecedented number of people are being imprisoned in Victoria

 

As of Friday, 21st February 2014 there were:Males = 5,497 Females = 399The Victorian prison population has increased by over 40% over the last 10 years even though there has been a 12% drop in the crime rate’.

 

•

 

In 2013 the overall prison population in Victoria increased 9 per cent

 

•

 

In 2013 the (crude) imprisonment rate increased from 112 per 100,000 to 120 per 100,000

 

•

 

In 2013 the male population increased 9 per cent (420 persons) from 2012

 

•

 

In 2013 the female population increased 11 per cent (36 persons) from 2012

 

•

 

In 2012/2013 the number of people being imprisoned grew by around 100 per by day

 

The Attorney General has predicated a 45% increase in the number of imprisoned people between 2011 and 2016.

 

The Attorney General’s report also found that spending on services and rehabilitation for incarcerated people has not kept up with the increased number of people in prison.

 

Who is being imprisoned, how long for and why

 

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS)in 2013:

 

•

 

The median age of an incarcerated person in Victoria was 35.3 years

 

•

 

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people made up 7 per cent of the prison population

 

•

 

75 per cent of prisoners were born in Australia, followed by 5 per cent born in Vietnam

 

•

 

51 per cent of prisoners had known prior adult imprisonment

 

In Australia some people are more likely to be incarcerated than others. We know that:

 

•

 

Indigenous people constitute 26% of Australians imprisoned

 

•

 

Indigenous young people (under 18) are 28 times more likely to be incarcerated than their non-Indigenous peers

 

•

 

Incarcerated people are four times more likely to have a mental health illness than the general population

 

•

 

Only small minority of incarcerated people have completed high school or obtained a trade qualification; most have not finished year 10

 

In Victoria in 2013:

 

•

 

Victoria was the only jurisdiction to have a most common most serious offence/charge of offences against justice (15 per cent; 806 persons)

 

•

 

Offences against justice procedures, government security and operations (15 per cent; 806 persons)

 

•

 

Acts intended to cause injury (14 per cent; 764 persons)

 

•

 

Sexual assault and related offences (14 per cent; 734 persons)

 

•

 

Illicit drug offences (12 per cent; 659 persons)

 

•

 

Unlawful entry with intent (11 per cent; 566 persons).

 

Women - Our most socially, economically and racially disadvantaged continue to beimprisoned in Victoria

 

•

 

82.9% of incarcerated women were born in Australia

 

•

 

The largest group of women born outside Australia are those born in Viet Nam, equalling 15.6% of women inside

 

•

 

The median age of women was 38.2 years

 

•

 

10.9% of women inside were under 25

 

•

 

87% of female prisoners in Victoria were victims of sexual, physical or emotional abuse, with the majority being victims of multiple forms of abuse

 

•

 

55% have drug and alcohol problems

 

•

 

33% have acquired brain injuries

 

•

 

7.2% have completed secondary education

 

•

 

35.9% of women had been previously been incarcerated

 

•

 

78.4% of women were sentenced

 

•

 

21.6% of women were on remand

 

Indigenous women imprisoned in Victoria

 

•

 

Equal 12.3% the overall female population

 

•

 

70% of these women were sentenced

 

•

 

30% of these were on remand

 

•

 

50% had been in prison before

 

•

 

85% had only partially completed high school

 

•

 

65% and were unemployed at time of detention

 

•

 

35% reported undertaking home duties

 

•

 

Are more likely to be in prison for offences against the person (35%) and property offences (35%)

 

Imprisoned women in Australia are more likely to be survivors or physical, emotion and sexual trauma

 

•

 

68% reported emotional abuse as children

 

•

 

44% reported sexual abuse as chil2008-11 33 of the 159 deaths in prison custody were Indigenous people

 

•

 

An increasing number of incarcerated Aboriginal people are dying from heart attack and cirrhosis of the liver

 

Deaths post release

 

•

 

Formerly incarcerated people are almost seven times more likely to commit suicide than the general population

 

•

 

Coroners Court data indicates that at least 120 formerly incarcerated people died within two months of their release (or on parole) between 2000 and 2010

 

•

 

2004 research into the death of young people leaving youth training centres in Victoria found young women were 40% more likely to die prematurely than the general population. The report found the younger the individual was at the time of incarceration, the greater their risk of dying young upon their return to the community. Both reports found drug related causes and suicide to be leading causes of death.

 

•

 

The average number of deaths amongst formerly incarcerated people in their first year back in the community is at least five times the prison deaths average. 350 to 500 die post release – suicide or by various self-harm including addiction to various substances per year

 

•

 

The mortality rate for formerly incarcerated people four weeks out is 15.3 per 1000 and 9.1 per 1000 people over a year

 

•

 

A QLD study found that formerly incarcerated people under the age of 25 are six more times likely to die that the general population

 

•

 

The same QLD study found that formerly incarcerated young women under the age of 25 are 20 more times likely to die that the general population

 

Statistics on incarceration at the national level- for adults

 

•

 

The number of prisoners in Australia has reached over 30,000 for the first time; there were 30,775 prisoners in Australia's corrective services custody

 

•

 

There has been an increase of five per cent since 2012

 

•

 

0.2 per cent of Australia's adult population is in corrective services custody

 

•

 

The median age for male prisoners was 33.9 years and 34.5 years for females

 

•

 

58 per cent of all prisoners had previously served a sentence in an adult prison

 

•

 

The most common offences for male prisoners were acts intended to cause injury (20 %), sexual assault and unlawful entry with intent (both 15 %)

 

•

 

The most common for females were illicit drug offences (18 %) acts intended to cause injury (17 %) and unlawful entry with intent (10 %)

 

•

 

Eight in ten prisoners were born in Australia (81 %), followed by New Zealand (3 %), Vietnam and the United Kingdom (both 2 %)

 

•

 

46% of incarcerated people leaving prison reported having a mental health diagnosis

 

•

 

34% of incarcerated people have completed below year 10

 

•

 

35% of incarcerated people were homeless

 

•

 

43%of incarcerated people will be homeless upon release

 

•

 

48 of incarcerated people were unemployed in the 30 days prior to their imprisonment

 

•

 

16% of incarcerated people reported a history of self-harm

 

•

 

7% of incarcerated people were at risk of self-harm

 

•

 

70% of incarcerated people reported having used illicit drugs in past 12 months

 

Aboriginal people in custody:

 

•

 

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people comprised 27 % of the total prisoner population

 

•

 

Aboriginal people are 14.8 times more likely than non-Indigenous Australian to be in prison

 

•

 

Aboriginal women are considered the fastest growing group of incarcerated people in Australia

 

Statistics on incarcerated young people at the national level- for (aged 10 -17)

 

•

 

A recent report by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) found that on an average day almost 7,000 young people are under supervision

 

•

 

Of the 7,000 young people, 86% were supervised in the community and 14% were in detention

 

•

 

Most young people involved in the youth justice system were male (83%) and themajority (79%) were aged 14–17

 

•

 

Highest rates of offending for young people are theft, acts to cause injury and public order offences

 

Indigenous young people

 

•

 

Indigenous young people remain over-represented in youth justice constituting 39% of the population under supervision

 

•

 

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are more likely to become part of the justice system younger and are 16 times as likely to be under community supervision and 25 times as likely to be in detention as non-Indigenous young people

 

•

 

The higher rates of contact between Indigenous young people and the juvenile justice system may be greater as the Northern Territory or Western Australia didn’t provide data. Both of these states have significantly larger Indigenous populations.

 

•

 

Indigenous young people (aged 10 to 14) were substantially more likely to have charges laid against them than non-Indigenous young people

 

•

 

Over representation of Indigenous young people was greatest amongst 10 -14 year olds (compared to 15 -17 year olds) who were 6-10 times more likely to have charges proceeded with than non-Indigenous young people

 

Young women

 

•

 

There was no offence where young women’s offending exceeded young men

 

•

 

During 2010-11 among young women aged 10 -17 19,753 were processed and charged for committing a crime. 5,181 were proven guilty in the Children’s Court

 

•

 

2,400 young women were on juvenile justice supervision orders, 2,085 were on community based supervision, 900 were in detention

 

 

[Teckair]

We are living beyond our means. Eventually the house of cards will come crashing down.

And there you have it, it is already happening, and we have a heap of people who think they are intelligent who just don't get it.

 

 

[Robert1]

If our system continually requires growth to perform we are defiantly heading to the house of cards

 

 

[Teckair]

If our system continually requires growth to perform we are defiantly heading to the house of cards

All ponzi schemes require growth and they all fail eventually.

 

 

[alf jessup]

What I cannot work out with the government is that they are not prepared to assist the car industry with funding, it makes no sense at all as they could allocate x amount to Holden, Ford & Toyota to keep people employed and indirectly keep many thousands more employed in the components sector.

 

The government would make this money back in taxes from the individuals still employed over a period instead of paying out welfare to the 50,000+ people it would be putting out of work.

 

Do the Math 50,000 people +- put on welfare from the car industry closures say at 400 per week x 52 weeks, about 1 billion a year give or take the government has to dish out with no return or chuck in 200 million a year to each of the manufacturers and they come out way in front, they have saved 400 million alone in the welfare cost not including the taxes the workers would be contributing back to the government..

 

Go figure ?

 

 

[Teckair]

It is not economical to produce things in Australia we have priced our selves out of the market. We have too many people paid more than they are worth. It does not matter whether people agree or not it is just the way it is, there is going to have to be a major correction.

 

 

[alf jessup]

It is not economical to produce things in Australia we have priced our selves out of the market. We have too many people paid more than they are worth. It does not matter whether people agree or not it is just the way it is, there is going to have to be a major correction.

It's not economical either to put another 50,000 people on welfare and have the remainder of the work force cover the slack while those parasitic pollies fill their boots with tax payer funded goodies and who are paid way to much than what they are really worth especially in the superannuation part..

 

Maybe we should just become a real third world country and manufacture nothing at all then by the sounds of it.

 

Should also stop selling our LPG to Japan for around 5cpl by the ship load, and our iron ore to China also, maybe we should charge them a realistic price for a commodity they don't have in their own country, you wonder why we cannot compete, well they get it for nicks manufacture it for nicks because they got it cheap and sell it back to us for over inflated prices.

 

I agree with you Teckair we have priced ourselves out of it for giving it to other countries far cheaper that what it is really worth.

 

For such a wealthy mineral country we really are stupid.

 

Alf

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

What I cannot work out with the government is that they are not prepared to assist the car industry with funding, it makes no sense at all.... Go figure ?

In fact it makes perfect sense. Where should this stop Alf? If the government was giving the car manufacturers money why should they not also give my manufacturing business money? And why only manufacturing, why not give all employers money based on how many they employ? Now that would be nice as effectively we would get our tax money back but not so practical right?

 

On the employment topic sometimes good advice comes from unexpected sources: "the only job that is beneath you is not having a job".

 

 

[alf jessup]

GG,

 

Just watched that Chris Kutcher video, smart man that fella.

 

Alf

 

 

[Mark11]

Lets consider another industry ... The construction industry ....

 

The cost of construction here is 4x that of say Singapore

 

If we were to build buildings and sell them overseas (like a car) - we wouldn't ever sell any

 

The cost of wages in Australia means construction costs are high ..... Charge out rates for an electrician is $80/hr!

 

OR is it a case of everyone overseas is underpaid --- of course they are --- so how can Australia be competitive --- we can't

 

If property prices weren't high, it would not work at all.... And it only works because of the foreign investors

 

The government never bothered to bail out struggling construction companies - and plenty of people lost their jobs. (the week before Xmas in my case - terminated with NO redundancy!) happily the company who did that is now gone - serves you right!!!

 

The school spending spree was a complete joke!!!

 

Schools didn't get to choose what they wanted - they just got a hall whether they wanted it or not

 

AND it cost double (or triple) what it would have had the work been directly contracted.... And the builders who actually did the work made next to nothing!!!!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The school spending spree was a complete joke!!!

 

Schools didn't get to choose what they wanted - they just got a hall whether they wanted it or not...

Perhaps true, but many struggling schools, after asking for generations, finally got an assembly hall.

 

In my case, the design and construction ignored local input; we received a building with colossal design flaws and a lot of money was wasted. That's what government (and big business) does. At least a lot of people were kept in employment.

 

 

[Teckair]

There were basic problems with GMH when I worked there, among most of the employees there simply was no work ethic to speak of. There have been so many tax payer dollars given to them that could have been so much better spent. It was not just the unions that caused the downfall, but it was the workers themselves they actually don't deserve to have jobs, it has been nothing more than natural justice.

 

 

[kaz3g]

The building industry has been subsidised for many years. First home owner grants for housing and negative gearing for landlords of all persuasions.

 

The lowest subsidy given out is that given to farmers who have had to compete on the unlevel playing field for many years. Every other country manufacturing cars subsidises its industry. Every other major primary producing. Country subsidises its farmers.

 

It seems we all head off overseas at the drop of a hat and spend our money in foreign lands rather than supporting our home grown tourism, too. Arnhem Land is the only place I haven't been to at least twice and it's on my bucket list.

 

Australia, big in area and small in population and political intellect can't understand that it's not a fair world out there at all.

 

They think the market will correct the $A but it needs Government intervention to fix the mess we have suffered because our dollar became ridiculously overvalued due the mining boom.

 

Australians have a very poor philanthropic record compared to most over developed nations. And most of us seem to think its ok for us to receive $xyz for our efforts but would deny the standard of living arising from good incomes to others.

 

I guess I'm showing my age in this brave new world where it's no longer the norm to look out for the less fortunate anymore

 

Kaz.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Just watched that Chris Kutcher video, smart man that fella.

His points in the follow up interview were good too:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sykEOFu0aYQ

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm a bit confused by your last post OME. Are you looking for work or just making social commentary. I assumed you were looking for a decent job and contacted a friend of mine who is a Director of one of Australia's lsrgest companies and in charge of their national parts distribution centres. He would know exactly what the employment situation was and contact names. We've missed each other a couple of times this week, but I need to lnow whether to ask for some help or not.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I did some course that allows me to test the safety of electrical appliances and leads. Work, Health and Safety laws throughout Australia require these tests to be done regularly. However, you try to convince a small business to part with about $400 every year to comply with the law.

You are aware that you didn't actually need to do a course to be able to test and tag OME? Not that the course would not be beneficial of course but probably why many businesses would prefer to do this themselves just for the cost of the blank tags, quite legal to do so