Australia - The Vassal State of the USA

[willedoo]

I think the original deal was two used subs and one new one, now it's changed to three used subs.

[willedoo]

It seems like we've got a long history of defence acquisition problems. I guess it wouldn't be an easy job trying to figure out something way into the future and finding the money for it.

[onetrack]

The Canadians lost over $500M in the mid-1990's on a Defence acquisition plan for EH-101 helicopters, that was cancelled by an incoming new PM.

 

But that amount pales into loose change when you consider we have signed up for a $368  BILLION deal for these subs. I don't know where that kind of money is going to come from - and if the deal is canned, we'll be paying multiple billions in penalties just to do that.

 

We have already had the French subs fiasco, where we paid out $835M to the Naval Group in France for the French subs contract cancellation. I'm convinced some future Govt will can the AUKUS subs as unaffordable and technically obsolete.

[rgmwa]

Three subs, whether used or not, don't seem enough to provide an effective defence, even if we eventually get them. You could barely maintain one consistently on station. I assume we're hoping the US will locate some of theirs here once we've built the necessary facilities. On the other hand the AUKUS design, if it ever gets built, is massive and will take years to get all the bugs ironed out of it. We'll probably be the ones stuck with doing most of the testing. Being designed jointly between Australia, the UK and the US it will probably not suit anyone. Reminds me of an old joke about what a camel is - a horse designed by a committee.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by rgmwa

[onetrack]

Gee, I never knew the Collins subs were so slow. By the time they got to the war zone, the war would be over. Small autonomous subs must be the future. Each one would be much lower cost, losing one of them would only be a fraction of the cost of losing an AUKUS sub - and sub crews are getting harder and harder to find.

 

No-one wants to be crammed into a steel tube for weeks at a time, living in cramped conditions, and knowing that any genuine war fighting - or even a mistake or malfunction, could mean the end of their lives in a horrible manner.

[willedoo]

onetrack, have you been on the HMAS Ovens? I did the tour when I was over there eleven years ago, very interesting inside.

[onetrack]

No Willie, I've never been through it, although I've been through the Maritime Museum. I've been told numerous times it's quite interesting - to us, as blokes, anyway. SWMBO would never go through it, she is quite claustrophobic.

[willedoo]

It's well worth it. I'm a bit biased as my all time favourite movie genre is submarine movies, but for any technically minded person it's got heaps of interest. They were a British design if my memory is correct.

[willedoo]

I can relate to life on a submarine. At work we had dongas with two to a room, bunks 500mm wide and 0.6 square metres of floor space per two man room. But at least we were out of them for sixteen hours every day.

[rgmwa]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

Gee, I never knew the Collins subs were so slow. By the time they got to the war zone, the war would be over.

10 kts surfaced, 20+ kts submerged.