Middle East conflict

[Marty_d]

Jeezus Jerry, I'm almost afraid to say anything now in case it brings forth another 50,000 words of reply! 😄

 

Look.  If you want to ignore the almost daily reports of civilian killings, starvation, refusing to allow food and medical delivery by truck or ship, lack of any legal consequence for extrajudicial killings, targeting of noncombatants, etc - that's up to you.

 

And no one is trying to hold Israel to any higher standard than anyone else.  Is Hamas a terrorist organisation that should be disarmed?  Of course it is.  Do you keep killing a country's civilians until that terrorist organisation is disarmed?  No you bloody don't.  

 

And as for throwing around the anti-semitic label at anyone who dares to speak out against Israel's invasions - Lebanon too now, as well as Iran - that's just lazy.  I'm totally against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Trump's invasions of Venezuela and Iran, Hamas's October 7th invasion of Israel, and anyone else who takes uninvited military action in a country that isn't theirs.  But because I'm also against Netanyahu's invasions of Gaza, Lebanon and Iran, I'm somehow anti semitic?

[Jerry_Atrick]

I will keep it short this time. 

 

I don't ignore the daily reports - I know that the media has to sell and there is nothing like sensationalism nor whipping up hatred that sells. We seem to accept that on the reporting of the local issues with Muslim population, but accept blindly what is reported about Israel. So, I try and look behind the reports amd find the context. Even the "killing a country's civilians until the terrorists are disarmed" is very simplistic and ignores many other things, IMHO. 

 

I didn't say criticisng Israel's invasion was anti-semetic. I would ask you read what I wrote again.  I said a lot of people hide behind criticising Zionism as being anti-semetic (or holding Israel to a different/higher standard than others is anto-semetic). They are two very different things. 

 

If you can tell me why actos of other countries you mention or those that were far worse (I provided the numbers) don't generate the same backlash as Israel (not on these fora, but more across the population) who that is not anti-semitc, I am happy to be wrong. 

 

[rgmwa]

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I don't think it was all about that. Israel is more of a democracy than most; not the highest in the world, but top quartile or third by this index: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu

 

And, so I would expect that while that is certainly part of his motivation, if that was all of it, but didn't accord with the rest of his government, it wouldn't be happening. 

Jerry, I didn't say it was all about Netanyahu trying to stay in power and out of prison. I said `also'. We're not disagreeing here. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Jeezus Jerry, I'm almost afraid to say anything now in case it brings forth another 50,000 words of reply! 😄

Yeah - I have to restart drinking... 😉

 

[pmccarthy]

Jerry this has been the best thread ever since you started speaking truth to prejudice.

[nomadpete]

6 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Yeah - I have to restart drinking... 😉

 

You need to ride to work more often. 

[old man emu]

It is interesting that China seems to have been silent over all this. China must be suffering a bit from the oil supply problem. Perhaps these inscrutable Oriental gentlemen are sitting back watching the USA shoot itself in the foot and lose the standing it had . I don't know how accurate this is, but I read somewhere that Taiwan might look to have an accord with China because it might fear that the USA would not protectr it if China moved militarily against it.

[nomadpete]

2 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It is interesting that China seems to have been silent over all this.

Remember....

Never interrupt your enemy whilst they are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

(Or summat like that)

[kgwilson]

I was in Israel for a short time in 1973. The Israelis were very hospitable and were under constant threat then. The 6 day war in 67 was the last one then but the world was in the middle of the aircraft hijacking phase at the time. I fully supported Israels position and role then, after the holocaust & persecution they'd been through, to building a state and home for their people.

 

Times, actions and attitudes have changed. Netanyahu is a War Criminal & needs to be prosecuted and jailed. He already would be if the Hamas terrorist attack had never happened. 75,000 Palestinians have been killed and Gaza destroyed. Palestinians are being evicted from the West bank and illegal Jewish settlements set up there. Israel has killed numerous aid workers & press personnel in Gaza with excuses or denials every time that they were targeting Hamas. They has excellent intelligence & the most sophisticated of weaponry but somehow can't get their targets and through the whole conflict still couldn't find Hamas or their hostages. They broke the ceasefire numerous times always with excuses and have now claimed part of Gaza for themselves. Now they are taking part of Lebanon.

 

Without Trumps support this would not have happened who also wants Netanyahu pardoned.

 

Trump has turned the US into a dictatorship with him as president assuming absolute power, achieved by appointing unqualified sycophants to top roles and ignoring all rules of order and decency. He is ignorant, poorly educated & supported by 60 million fundamentalist evangellical christians now called MAGA. He even thinks he was appointed by some GOD he professes to believe in.

 

I have not read any of JAs long rants and don't intend to.

[old man emu]

 

China has stood aside, they say, because its leaders understand the maxim attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte, supposedly uttered as his foes were abandoning high ground at Austerlitz: “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”