Is our 2 party system just a con?

[willedoo]

7 hours ago, Marty_d said:

"Go back to where you came from?"

Yeah, very much racism 

Purtting the intent aside, are those particular words racist? Just on the wording alone, I'd call them nationalistic as only the country was mentioned, not the person's race or religion. As an example, if an anglo saxon descent Australian person told a Pom of anglo saxon descent to piss off back to England, is that rascist even tough both parties are of the same race. Intent can differ, but the wording is the same in both cases. I always thought rascism was bias against someone because of their race, not nationality. If you are white and told two South Africans to piss off back to South Africa and one is black and one is white, is it racism in both cases, only in one case or in none?

[Marty_d]

For 30 years Hanson has been spewing racial hatred.

First it was "Australia is being swamped by Asians". Then she went on about Aboriginal people. Then South Africans, but only the darker skinned ones.

This time around it's people from the middle east, especially Muslims with her burqa stunts.

So when she tells someone who's not Anglo Saxon "piss off back to Pakistan", are you seriously going to tell me she's not being racist?

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

1 minute ago, Marty_d said:

First it was "Australia is being swamped by Asians"

You'd be surprised how many people, including Aboriginals, who don't want so many Asians here. An Aboriginal I spoke to in the early eighties said he wanted neither Asians nor black Africans in Australia. People are voting like this now, and O.N. is benefiting. 

[Marty_d]

How many Asian people do you know personally, GON?

[willedoo]

11 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

So when she tells someone who's not Anglo Saxon "piss off back to Pakistan", are you seriously going to tell me she's not being racist?

No I'm not saying that Marty. Read my post more carefully. What I'm saying is that the words alone don't refer to race, only former nationality. Get over the Hanson thing for a minute and think about the words alone, no matter who utters them. She told the person to piss off back to the country she migrated from, no mention of the person's race or religion. Forget about Hanson and look at the example of a white Australian telling a white Kiwi to piss off back to NZ. Would those words alone constitute racism of one white person toward another? I'd consider a case like that to be nationalistic based and not race based. If Hanson had told a white South African to piss off back to South Africa, is that racist? Would she be having a go at the person's race or nationality?

 

The point I'm making is, that the words she used are not racist but nationalistic. That's looking solely at the wording and not taking perceived intent into account. The court obviously made the decision that they thought she had racist intent in what she said. The words alone (regardless of who spoke them) don't convey that. That's what a high court challenge will have to sort out.

[willedoo]

11 hours ago, Marty_d said:

"Go back to where you came from?"

Yeah, very much racism 

Sorry to requote Marty but she didn't tweet that. This is the text in question:

“Your attitude appalls and disgusts me. When you immigrated to Australia you took every advantage of this country. You took citizenship, bought multiple homes, and a job in a parliament. It’s clear you’re not happy, so pack your bags and piss off back to Pakistan - PH.”

 

Probably where you've got that from is that Justice Angus Stewart found Hanson’s comment that Faruqi should “piss off back to Pakistan” was a “variant of the slogan ‘go back to from where you came from’” which he said was an a “racist trope” and a “strong form of racism”.  So she didn't say it but the Judge had the opinion that it meant the same as another saying they considered racist.

[Marty_d]

You can get down in the weeds about whether the words by themselves are inherently racist.

But everything needs context, and I'm inclined to agree with the judge. In this context I would argue they were racist.

[willedoo]

It will be interesting to see what becomes of a high court challenge. The judge in this case said it functioned as a test case for the claims of both parties. Marty, you judge Hanson's intent on her past history and you have every reason to, but a court can't take any previous statements on other past matters into account; they must only judge on the matter at hand. If an appeal to the high court happens, they'll have to judge on whether her words I quoted in a previous post constitute racism. The words alone don't in my opinion. Pakistan is a geographic area and a soverign state, so on words alone she's telling someone to go back there. It's her intent in using those words that the courts decide on. On words alone it's no different than if you came up here and I told you to piss off back to Tasmania. You know yourself how many times Tasmanians have said they wish mainlanders would piss off back to the mainland. That's not racist, and it could be argued not necessarily Stateist, just a desire to be left alone. But on words alone, it's no different to what Hanson said.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

SBS should be sued for their show "Go back to where you came from" ... they could have named it something else entirely. They inflamed the national debate, inciting and provoking racism for their own ends - stirring the pot, and knew they'd get away with it.

 

Both the ABC and SBS need to be defunded until they come to their senses, then a stronger watchdog to keep them in check.

[Siso]

If you are invited into someones home and start to mouth of about the traditional parts of their lifestyle and mouth of about a person who didn't actually have anything to do with the stuff that upsets them, I am sure that you are within your rights to tell them to leave. Pretty sure if we were in Pakistan and started to act like that it wouldn't go down to well. My definition of racism would be that the person was told to go back there just because of their heritage.

[facthunter]

Who has the right to tell any one to leave, who is Lawfully here.? She's only doing it to $#!t stir and get Publicity. Playing gullible people for MUGS while she Lives the grand Life, She's a "Would be IF she could be, Stale Tart who hates scrutiny and Hard Questions" She's the very LAST thing this Country Needs. Nev

[Siso]

she didn't ask to leave, just said if you don't like it go back. Stale tart, talking about the greens member are you?

[facthunter]

Pathetic.  IF you see her as the answer you have a  Problem. Prime minister? Just think about it for a moment. SHE would make us the Laughing stock of the entire world in no time flat.. The People she aligns with, you would NOT want to Know.  It;s also" HER show", Remember and Ashby plays  a Major Part in it. Operating within the Law will be one of Her biggest difficulties but SHE will Play the "They are out to get ME Card" for ALL it's worth. Nev

[Siso]

Never said she was the answer, problem is the encumbent isn't either. You are the one that started calling people childish names. Grow UP!

[nomadpete]

Maybe we should revise the common usage of the words 'race' & 'racism'.

 

Last time I looked, folks from 'other countries' are all of the same race. Likewise all humans regardless of their skin pigment or language.

 

So in the above discussion, wouldn't a Paki be of the same race as a Anglo Aussie?

 

Aren't we all members of the Human Race?

 

Racism? Bah!

Edited 4 hours ago by nomadpete

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The ALP and the Coalition have seen better days, they've been at it since 1901. It's time for a change. 

 

Voting on the issues would be more productive. Candidates would be voted in to form a committee to work on the issues that voters voted on and see as priorities. The Committee will be disallowed from changing those priorities.

 

Directly work for the people in other words, and cut out all the political mud slinging and self interest. 

[facthunter]

BE NICE, SISO. We are entitled to express  a different view to yours .It was  also a quite Fullsome comment I made.  Not just "She is not THE one" but I will  add that too . Nev

[facthunter]

Change your Underwear....Yes. but why change the Government if the Offerings are too risky? You can always vote HERE but not a lot of other Places. Do tell Me where you  would rather be.. Nev

[willedoo]

Adapting Gerry Rafferty's lyrics to Australian politics:  "Clowns to the left of us, Jokers to the right, here we are, stuck in the middle with Albo".

[facthunter]

Why don't you actually examine how WE AUSTRALIA are going wille, compared to most other Countries The others are self destructing. The NATS finished off the Libs  by blackmailing them and then Taylor made it worse by undermining Ley. There's hardly any  Women Left in their show.  They were going to Move on Bridget Archer for crossing the floor and now she's gone to the state in Tassie..  WE got Fuel when it looked impossible. Storage alone is not  a real great Idea It imposes cost and risks. I think we should have considered going a bit back to Autogas which we have Plenty of and therefore eases Our balance of Payments situation and supply security. Converted diesel Generators can run on it for remote areas and standby.  We are in rapidly changing unpredictable times. Nev

Edited 1 hour ago by facthunter
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