How prevalent is Darwin's Theory "Survival of The Fittest" in modern Western society?

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

I believe it's alive and well, and it's primal, and we seem to have difficulty rising above it, let alone discussing how it affects us in our everyday living. If we understood it better, stress levels would plummet, in my view. If we delve into it, at the moment we are no better than the animal world. 

 

Survival of the fittest has many guises, and it's all those guises that we should look into, especially the ones that do us more harm than good. Majority Rule is one, another is the battle between the sexes. Both of these are very primal. We need to work on them to greatly reduce the "survival of the fittest" effect. 

[facthunter]

There's more to Darwin's theory than that. Your MATE Trump won't permit teaching of Genetics. Have an EPA or  accept that " Anthropogenic Climate Change" is Happening or that CO2 and things like Plastic are a problem. Trump is Pretty Primal. Him DA Boss .That's it.  Nev

[rgmwa]

Majority rule is the opposite of survival of the fittest. The `battle' between the sexes is a battle for equality, also not survival of the fittest.

[facthunter]

 If you indulge in that you are "Bonkers" Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

It's in your subconscious, so you won't recognize it when it's in play. Laws relating to the treatment of veterans and conscripts reek with "survival of the fittest". Treatment is limited, and therefore only a limited number of ex service persons benefit from the limited treatments available, and they for service related injuries only. Ex service persons who suffer anything else other than what's on the list of treatments, are left behind and out in the cold, like Jews in the 30s-40s. It's all based on survival of the fittest. It's endemic in our society. 

[facthunter]

Expect NOTHING and be Pleasantly surprised when you get something. Veterans have never been given the recognition they deserve probably in most parts of the world.  Trump calls them "suckers and Losers",  Nev

[onetrack]

It's got nothing to do with survival of the fittest - the treatment of Australian veterans, and their entitlements (in your case), are in place under our countrys laws, in the form of the "Veterans Entitlements Act, 1986".

The VEA 1986 comprises two large volumes, and every decision in those two volumes has been tested in an Australian Court of Law by complainants alleging they were owed compensation or entitlements, and the ensuing decisions as to whether they were owed compensation or entitlements, or not, is set in stone in the judgments from those cases.

 

It's not reasonable to expect some form of compensation or entitlement simply because you were conscripted. The compensations and entitlements are for service in a defined War Zone, or for "Service related injuries" (regardless of where they were incurred).

As a Vietnam Veteran who did qualifying service in a recognised War Zone, and who incurred disabilities as a result of that service, I get the exact entitlements as laid down in the VEA 1986, and nothing else.

I get a Service Pension, which is essentially the same as an Age Pension, except it is awarded at an earlier age than the allotted retirement age. I also get a disability payment based on my disabilities assessment.

The basic Service Pension is the same amount of money as the Age Pension, and eligibility is tested using the same Means Test as the Age Pension.

In some cases a small extra allowance is paid to War Veterans, depending on their circumstances. The only other difference is that the Dept of Veterans Affairs pays my pension, not Centrelink.

I might add I'm extremely grateful to the Australian Govt and the DVA for the support they give to Australian War Veterans, we certainly get far better treatment than U.K. Veterans.

 

Edited yesterday at 10:25 AM by onetrack

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

10 minutes ago, onetrack said:

It's not reasonable to expect some form of compensation or entitlement simply because you were conscripted.

Mandatory conscription deserves compensation, in a civilized nation. But the 2yr jail sentence penalty for not complying meant Australia  wasn't civilized. Why didn't you knock back your entitlements as a protest against the draconian conscription law and your loss of freedom compared to citizens who weren't called up?

 

We allowed the politicians to be the "fittest", and us conscripts just had to try and survive, many of us didn't. The servants of the people, the politicians, proved to be the "fittest". Nowadays, they're patting themselves on the back for encouraging thousands of Xbox game players to join the military. One can only hope they read all the fine print.

 

In everything that we do in life, or what is thrust upon us, we should consider Darwin's Theory first and foremost. 

[rgmwa]

1 minute ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

In everything that we do in life, or what is thrust upon us, we should consider Darwin's Theory first and foremost. 

Well, that does it. I'm not getting out of bed tomorrow. Too much competition.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

What are flight checks for?

[rgmwa]

You mean flight competency checks for a pilot? Seems pretty obvious what they’d be for. 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

No, checking the plane before taking off - that's what I meant.

[rgmwa]

Some pilots don’t. Those that do may live longer on average. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have refreained from the conversation as I have to admit, I am struggling to see the correlation between survivasl of the fittest and conscription. And then reeferencing pre tale-off checks to, I presume survival of the fittest is odd, in my  mind. You can be disabled and still perform the necessary checks. Have a Cirrus? It will do most for you. Hardly survival of the fittest. Maybe survival if the smartest? Or, have I missed something? 

 

There are many people in our society who survive and thrive and they aren't the fittesy - physically nor mentally. There are many people who have some form of autism and aren't exactly going to give Anrie a run for his money on the physical side, yet they are extremely successfully financially because they are extremely intelligment and can identify market signals a mile away and put in strategies that make them a lot of money, for example. Of course, money isn't eveything, but playing in that game, they are hard to beat. However, put them up at Puckapunyal, and they will probably suffer all sorts of problems.. they aren't terribly good at that game - except their extreme analytical brain may well have them next to officers on conbat strategies, or code breaking or some such thing. 

 

I get your grievance though, @Grumpy Old Nasho. You had two years of your life robbed, by the luck of the draw. It wasn't universal. Therefore, by the luck of the draw, others led an uninterrupted life. And It would appear your time as a Nasho was traumatic in some way. And, yeah, I agree, based on that, both Nasho and warzone vets should get some extra compenation/benefits over those that were able to continue living their life unchanged.  

 

And, by the way - thanks. Until you joined,I had not heard of the term, Nasho. My uncle was conscripted and is a Vietnam vet. I though everyone conscripted was sent there. 

Edited yesterday at 07:04 PM by Jerry_Atrick

[pmccarthy]

I was fearful of being conscripted. I sprained my ankle badly and was supposed to strap it but instead I let it collapse repeatedly and went back to the doctor several times to establish  history of a weak ankle, which I thought might get me out of it. I fell badly several times. The bad ankle stayed with me all my life. My number was not drawn! Friends fled to NZ. There were lots of consequences.

[onetrack]

I was never fearful of being conscripted, it was just another challenging life adventure to be faced, as far as I was concerned. I've faced nearly every major life challenge that one can face - poverty as a child, bullying at school, mistreatment by teachers, conscription, car crashes that weren't my fault (I was 5 and an innocent passenger when that first happened), plenty of close brushes with death via machinery, and also being in a combat zone, lost my house and virtually all I owned in a fire that was no fault of mine, had a bank destroy my business and all my assets after 30 years of asset building, endured deaths of close family members, some at a young age, and suffered from severe stuttering from childhood until around age 40.

 

I was never involved in any traumatic treatment in the Australian Army, but I was on the receiving end of extreme dislike, that bordered on abusive treatment, by some of the Army regulars, who often viewed conscripts as unworthy trash who diluted Army morale.

I was called "reo shit" a few times in Vietnam by a couple of hardened Army regulars who were essentially drunken deadbeats, anyway. "Reo" was the slang for "reinforcement", as troops rotated into Vietnam were deemed "reinforcements" in official-speak.

I shrugged off their abusive comments and ensured I associated with them as little as possible. The situation wasn't helped by the fact I wasn't a drinker (and about 20% of the troops didn't drink alcohol, or drank very little, which may come as a surprise to some), so I wasn't part of their "boozing" group, which made up a large part of the regular Army culture.

 

There are stories of supposedly legendary regular Army NCO's, who made their platoon members drink beer from their (NCO) boots, supposedly to bring about cohesion and mateship in platoons.

IMO, this is the height of Army dickhead thinking and outlook, and I certainly wouldn't take part in any BS moves such as that, which moves I would consider divisive, rather than uniting.

But there were a lot of Regular Army dickheads one had to work with - it was no secret that a lot of Army Regulars were in the Army because they couldn't hold down a job outside the Army, or fit in with civilian life.

 

Despite all that, I was still promoted and given NCO rank, which was extremely rare as a "nasho", because the Army normally saw giving rank to nashos as a useless move, thanks to the fact they were only there for 2 years. Regulars had to sign up for 6 years and nearly always got priority in promotions.

[octave]

GON, you have certainly made me think. In the past, I  considered it an injustice to force people to go to war; however, I never really thought of those who were forced to train, even if they never ended up in Vietnam. I fully support recognition for these people.

 

Having said that, you cannot change the past.  I am definitely not saying that "it was a long time ago, so just get over it."   Those 2 years can not be retrieved, but this makes it all the more important to make the remaining years as joyful as you can.  As I posted elsewhere, we spent 20 months almost as prisoners in our own home due to knife and gun-wielding drug dealers next door.   Against all odds, we won. We did consider that we would not win, and so we worked on a plan on how we could cope and still have a happy life.

We found that when it was getting us down, taking action (even if not an immediate game changer) improved our mental health.  Despair is bad enough, but adding helplessness makes it so much worse.

 

I did see a petition online that was asking for "Nashos" who did not end up going to Vietnam to be granted the same benefits, such as a gold card. Although perhaps the odds of success are low, the act of taking positive steps is mentally healthier than just dwelling on the original problem.

 

As a non-believer, I accept that this life is all there is, so I don't want to waste it getting hung up on past injustices or past mistakes. The past is unchangeable, but the future is something we can have some control over

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by octave

[rgmwa]

I was not particularly happy about being conscripted but registered as required. My number didn't come up. My parents, having lived through the war in occupied Europe and my dad having fought the Germans were more worried that I was.

Edited 11 hours ago by rgmwa

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

I should have got my girlfriend to marry me before my number came out of the barrel. All I needed was that marriage certificate to get me out of conscription. I never thought of it, I wish I had of. I didn't know about Darwin's theory at that time, I just resigned myself to my fate, and to the whims of those who were "fitter" than me, the politicians and those who voted for them. I lost everything and had to start all over again. All I had left at the end of the two years was my car. 

 

This is why I say Majority Rule can do harm to the unwary.

 

A question for Onetrack: Did Army cooks use bromide in our meals?

[onetrack]

Quote

Did Army cooks use bromide in our meals?

No, that's an ancient WW2 furphy. Plenty of soldiers in Vietnam got "the jack" (VD), some a lot more than once - thus proving they didn't have any problems with libido.

 

I really don't understand how you could "lose everything you had", simply by being conscripted. How did that occur? 

I came home with $3500 in the bank, enough to buy a new Holden sedan. We had nothing much to spend our money on.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

9 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I really don't understand how you could "lose everything you had", simply by being conscripted. How did that occur? 

I came home with $3500 in the bank, enough to buy a new Holden sedan. We had nothing much to spend our money on.

I meant all the personal belongings I had at my parents place. They tossed or sold them, including a vintage car I was restoring. All I had after discharge was my regular car and a fortnights pay plus some holiday pay, neither of which added up to much. A good mate of mine, out of sympathy, let me stay at his place until I got back on my feet.