Should we cull our crocs?

[onetrack]

I see where Bob Katter and his supporting MP's are again proposing a major crocodile cull and croc-shooting safaris, to put the bitey buggers back to the level where all the waterholes are safe.

 

But his ideas have been knocked on the head, not only by the Qld Govt, but by wildlife warriors and croc lovers such as Terri Irwin.

 

What say you? - do you think a decent croc cull is long overdue?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-25/qld-katters-australian-party-crocodile-cull-plan-rejected-/105573960

[old man emu]

A cull is greatly difrferent to an all out slaughter. We get permits to cull kangaroos, don't we? Those permits limit the number of roos that aperson can kill. Same thikng can be done fro crocs, although Katter's  idea that it will make all waterholes safe is Trumpist logic.

[onetrack]

One of the things that gets me, is I have yet to see a properly-instituted "cost VS benefit" study done on the principle of letting crocs breed uncontrolled.

 

They eat a LOT of fish - and excellent eating quality fish, too, such as Barramundi - thus depriving the humans of a substantial amount of good quality, high value food product.

 

Then there's the amount of valuable cattle taken by crocs - which is considerable, by all reports. That's more good quality food out of the humans food demand.

 

There seems to be a generally increasing belief trend amongst Queenslanders (and some Territorians too, no doubt), that croc numbers are making life a lot more dangerous for humans, and seriously impacting on the humans enjoyment of the waterways and waterholes of the North, and impacting on recreational fishing.

 

Against that, there's obviously some major value in harvesting wild crocodile eggs (which appears to have little effect on their ever-increasing numbers), and some tourism value in seeing crocs in the wild.

 

However, the only document I can find is a very "pro-Croc" document, the NT "Wildlife Trade Management Plan for the Saltwater Crocodile", which effectively just outlines all the NT laws around the protection of crocs (both wild and farmed).

 

https://www.dcceew.gov.au/sites/default/files/env/pages/e85c86ad-0af5-40ad-b07b-99a27eed17e6/files/nt-saltwater-crocodile-mgt-plan-2016-20.pdf

 

Here is the Qld Parliaments Report on Katters "Crocodile Control and Conservation Bill 2025". I believe the Qld Parliaments Report and Katters Bill are both deficient - and substantially more wild crocodile research, producing "pro" and "con" views on culling, backed by all the evidence and factors involved, with regard to how significant the crocodile problem is, is required.

 

Too much of the consideration today appears to hinge completely on how good we are at conserving wild crocodile numbers, and little consideration is given to the possible benefits of reducing their numbers.

 

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-Committees/Committees/Committee-Details?cid=274&id=4504

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have no idea of the subject, but as always, I like to turn to facts. Suprisingly, when I key historical rate of crocodile fatalities in Australia into Mr Google, there really is scant info, but this did turn up, and was quoted in an ABC fact check that labelled as false Katter's claim a person is torn to shreds every three months by crocodiles in QLD alone: https://aussieanimals.com/reptiles/fatal-crocodile-attacks-australia-timeline/

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I accidentally hit save and by the time I got the rest of the response in, my time was up, so here is the rest:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-30/fact-check-does-a-crocodile-kill-someone-every-three-months-/9202902

 

 

I checked how many head of cattle per year are taken by crocs, and it is estimated to be around 100: https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-01-17/crocodiles-snapping-up-more-than-100-cattle-a-year/8187352. In the biullions of dollars that the Aussie beef industry is worth, I would expect that to be tuppance. Yep, those in affected areas have to spend a bit keeping their herds safe, but if it were not economic, they would get out of it. I wouold have thought snakes were more of an issue, but apparently not or there is little evidence, anyway. BTW. googleing current price for middle wight steers for beef in Australia yielded about $1900/head. That makes it less than $190K per year  out of a multi-billion dollar industry. Say there are 500 farms/stations affected and they need to each spend 100K per year protecting their herds, that is $50m/year in a multi billion dollar industry.. I think it doesn't add that much to the price you pay in the supermarket or butcher. 

 

I couldn't find any information on the amount of food crocs take in Australia that would deprive humans of their food. I would wager that societal inequities are probably a far bigger contributor to malnutrition in Australia than the croc's diet. 

 

I have no idea if the above is accurate - there is very little to go on, but as humans, we adapt to changes in our environment are able to exert influences on our enviromnment more effectively than any other species.. Maybe we can lear to live with them - or maybe we already have?

[nomadpete]

I believe a big motivation to cull crocs would be safety of humans at our famous Australian beaches.

It has taken quite a lot of years for saltwater croc population to recover from the 70's. Now the crocs have been extending their territory further and further down the east coast, it is just a matter of time before we start losing humans to crocs.

 

Bear in mind, crocs can live a long time. And they keep growing throughout their lives.

 

Soon, some management will have to be implemented.

 

Just think how popular something like Kris, the 8.5mtr Normanton croc, would be if he appears at tourist filled beach!

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

9 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Just think how popular something like Kris, the 8.5mtr Normanton croc, would be if he appears at tourist filled beach!

Depends on who he ate, I guess 😉

 

[Marty_d]

4 hours ago, nomadpete said:

I believe a big motivation to cull crocs would be safety of humans at our famous Australian beaches.

It has taken quite a lot of years for saltwater croc population to recover from the 70's. Now the crocs have been extending their territory further and further down the east coast, it is just a matter of time before we start losing humans to crocs.

 

Bear in mind, crocs can live a long time. And they keep growing throughout their lives.

 

Soon, some management will have to be implemented.

 

Just think how popular something like Kris, the 8.5mtr Normanton croc, would be if he appears at tourist filled beach!

 

Kris doesn't look much longer than 1.5m to me.

Bloody big croc though.

[nomadpete]

4 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Depends on who he ate, I guess 😉

 

Aaaah well that's different.

If we get to choose, I can think of a couple that would greatly benefit humanity by swimming with the crocodiles.

 

[nomadpete]

Poor Krys (THE croc) was shot dead by Krystina Powlowski, an otherwise nice looking young lady.

Krys found fame as 'One Shot'. The petite 5'4'' crocodile hunter  killed up to 10,000 reptiles over a 15-year hunting career - all while wearing long red nails.

Legend had it the mother-of-three only missed three shots in her lifetime. She was also able to skin a croc faster than anyone at the time.

 

 

Which shows you can't judge a book by it's cover.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 11:14 PM by nomadpete
had to delete pic of the wrong croc. They all look the same to me!

[facthunter]

WHEN IS the time to limit their numbers?  THEY are a serious risk to life in many places NOW including East Timor where our Salty's range to.  They have no other creature to fear (bar US) That's why they have continued to exist unchanged for Millions of years AND they are coming further south with rising sea water temps. OUR Salty's are the biggest and most dangerous in the world. Last time I was in the NT 3 people were taken in a space of 10 days. They are quite fast under the water and the second time you rinse the dishes THEY will be there ready to grab you and twist and shove you under a submerged Log. They also taste $#!T.. My opinion is there's too many already. It's possible their Prevalence is displacing other native species like whales. We tried to eliminate the Indian Water Buffalo and It tastes good.   WE also must stop the advance of fire ants and noxious weeds or the country won't be worth living in  either.  I haven't heard a good reason WHY we need so many Crocs..

 "Never smile at a crocodile, You can't get friendly with a Crocodile"  Nev

[red750]

We have the lagest wild camel population in the world, and I read on Yahoo News that there are between 2 and 5 million feral donkeys in the wild.

[facthunter]

Plenty of wild goats and feral pigs too. About 15 Kangaroos regularly come on my place. Rabbits are increasing.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

You raise a good point, Nev. Crocs do play an important part of the ecosystem:  https://chatgpt.com/share/688464ca-87e8-8008-91e9-a7cb5f702e72

 

But feral pigs and waterbuffalo are also on their diet and they help keep the numbers down. Feral cattle may also be taken. So, it helps keep at least some of that population in check. 

 

Yeah, crocs are a threat to humans. But there are a lot more humans than crocs, and a lot of humans do frequent where crocs live. Yet, very few are taken. Of course, a croc isn't that fussy an eater and will take people, but people are normally very adept at living in their environment, which contributes to what appears to be an extremely low rate of fatalities. So, if we are going to invest in control of animals, it may be better for Australia's environment and food production to invest in control of the feral species, while maintaining investment in education and safety of the public. 

 

Also, I am not saying a cull isn't on the cards.. Over-population of any species should really be kept in check and if the apex predator is not taking care of its own numbers through territorial fighting, etc, but I would liketo see an evidence based approach rather than anecdotal based approach.  I am not suggesting Chat GPT is accurate either.. If there's a case to supportit, it should be supported with the requisite quota in place to ensure no overculling. Would also like the controls in place to ensure there is no overvulling and leaving carcasses in situ to avoid detection.

Edited Saturday at 05:33 AM by Jerry_Atrick

[Jerry_Atrick]

Part of the reason I am questioning is that I recently stumbled across the importance dingos provide the the biodiversity, and ultimately, the economic performance of agriculture in Australia, yet they are still baited and culled. Here's one example where a pastoralist sees the economic benefits for cattle farming: 

 

 

Of course, it may be a different story for a sheep farmer in terms of pedation rates, so there may have to be some more innovation of managing flocks with dingos, but clearly, it it can be managed without culling, the farmers will be much better off and more productive. Which is why evidence based policy in this area (as with any) will lead us to inversting the resources in activities that will really solve the problems - not the gut reactions that can make it worse for us

Edited Saturday at 05:49 AM by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

6 hours ago, red750 said:

We have the lagest wild camel population in the world, and I read on Yahoo News that there are between 2 and 5 million feral donkeys in the wild.

Export them to arab countries... or Guantanamo, I say. They are illegal aliens 

[old man emu]

Actually, we have exported camels to Arab countries after we trtained them to race - the camels that is.

[onetrack]

Ahem ... the "100 cattle lost annually to crocs", is just from ONE station! The cattle losses are in the thousands across the nation. Here's a good Yahoo article about them.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/aussie-fishermans-confronting-crocodile-photo-reflects-hundred-thousand-dollar-issue-074455723.html

[Jerry_Atrick]

Fair call... But that article claims it is 800 a year; not sure if it is just in the region or for a station, or Australia wide. But the fisherman in the article is laying the blame of the take on the station owners not managing their cattle properly, so I am guessing this could be avoided. But even if it were 8,000 per year Australia wide, at $2K/head (and not all of them are worth that), we are looking at $16m/year.. still not a huge amount for the size of the industry. And some of these stations hold thousands of head of cattle, and still doubt it adds that much to the food bill at the check out.. 

 

But, if it makes sense to cull, they should be.

 

Sometimes, I am argumentative SoB

 

 

[nomadpete]

As mentioned before, there won't be much call for croc culling until we have a problem with surfboards washing up on the beaches, without any sign of the surfers.

[nomadpete]

For more clarity on how culling usually plays out,  I refer you to Elon's recent experience with a cull.

A lot of worthy but harmless (maybe even useful) individuals get the chop. And the more dangerous ones seem to still be left to make trouble. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

3 hours ago, nomadpete said:

As mentioned before, there won't be much call for croc culling until we have a problem with surfboards washing up on the beaches, without any sign of the surfers.

Well, if that is the case, then pollies and/or science has let us down... and to be quite frank, I know which genre lets us down far more often.

 

Edited Saturday at 09:20 PM by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

I used to Hire and sail Catamarans in Darwin. I wouldn't even walk along the Beach after dark now..  Salty's are really Dangerous, and are everywhere there is a bit of water AND moving South along the coastline and up the rivers.  Nev

[spacesailor]

I had a quick swim at ' Mindi beach .

spacesailor

[red750]

From Yahoo News:

 

Foxes were introduced to Australia in the 19th century, and since then their numbers have exploded.

 

Australians are being reminded that in just a matter of days, an expansive fox baiting program is due to commence on the east coast, aimed at reducing the growing population of the highly adaptable and invasive predator.

 

Across the country, foxes kill hundreds of millions of native animals per year, and in New South Wales, the pest is widespread. It's estimated they cost governments millions annually in eradication efforts, livestock losses, and environmental damage, meaning regular control efforts are critical to ensure their management remains possible.

                                                             oooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo

Looks like crocs aren't the only things in the cross hairs.