Electric car thread

[facthunter]

At this stage it might Just as well Be an ordinary ICE car. They ARE NOT Cheap. Nev

[old man emu]

This is an interesting video.

 

 

[Siso]

On 03/12/2025 at 1:39 PM, facthunter said:

At this stage it might Just as well Be an ordinary ICE car. They ARE NOT Cheap. Nev

I think you will find the fuel economy is pretty good for a larger car, especially around town. Still take some time to pay back the monetary difference of the fuel but over the buy price.

[facthunter]

Long term you still have the servicing and maintenance factor that an EV doesn't have. Once the fixed cost servicing has expired and the warrantee. Nev

[Siso]

I do my own maintenance and servicing. Parts are a small part. One thing I have noticed with my son being a mechanic is the change it out mindset. Air filters being an example. No one checks the condition of consumables, they are just changed every service.

[facthunter]

Time is Money. Often cheaper to just replace. Modern cars are a bit too complex for the Normal owner bar the oil and filter bits.   You need the analytical gear. Engine reconditioning is a Lost art. Engines last the Life of the Vehicle but once they Overheat they are NOT reliable. I use good Oils Best coolants and good filters. I have always got high Mileages from my vehicles. It's the way you drive them as well.  Jeep parts are expensive and some Makes parts  unavailable after a few years. Any Modern car out of warrantee is only worth about 50% of new Price. A car built from Parts would be about 10x the new price.  at least.  Some very high Kilometers with little cost are very achievable and common but there's a TIME to quit anything unless it's collectable and doesn't have too many diemetal  (zinc alloy) Plastic or Magnesium alloy Parts.  or unobtainable engine Mounts and Hoses.  When your modern car has 300K+ on it. it Owes you nothing. Asses it day by day depending on what happens in service Older vehicles can be repaired by cutting out Parts of the structure  Rusted or damaged and welding in replacement bit's Not so with Hi tensile thinner steels. creased or rusted it's Over,  rover.  Nev

[onetrack]

The EV sales figures have been skewed by Govt intervention, rebates and incentives, tariffs, the Chinese assault on global car manufacturers, and much misinformation.

In my neck of the woods, tax lurks such as salary sacrifice and novated leasing has propelled EV sales. On a stand-alone basis, EV's are still too expensive, and their depreciation is still high.

 

The Europeans have shot themselves in the foot, trying to protect their (very profitable) local car manufacturing industries. They introduced high tariffs on Chinese EV's being imported into Europe, and the Chinese simply imported more hybrids and IC-engined vehicles, and therefore STILL improved their overall sales levels.

The Chinese EV sales into Europe dropped 10% as against this time last year, so that probably explains all the cries from the fossil-fuel adherents, of "EV's are finished, sales are falling, now that people have woken up!!"

 

The bottom line is, the Chinese attack on the global car manufacturers is relentless, and they will undoubtedly win. Their productive capacity is mind-boggling, and their cost base is 30% lower  than anywhere else in the world.

I wouldn't buy a Chinese EV today, because I believe there's going to be a shakeout in the Chinese car manufacturers within 4 or 5 years - but I'll wager in 4 or 5 years time, over 2/3rds of cars (and trucks and buses) on our roads, will be Chinese.

 

I just sighted the Chinese car market stats, and they currently sell 114 brands and 1,142 models of Chinese cars within the country. That is just staggering, and there will surely be many of those brands fall by the wayside over the next few years.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/chinese-ev-european-tariffs-have-backfired/

 

Edited December 14, 2025 by onetrack

[red750]

There's a car dealership yard a couple of k's up the road which has changed hands a few times over the past few years. First it was a Ford dealership, till they moved to a larger premises in Ringwood, then a Holden dealership till Holden ceased production. Recently it was a dealership for Mahindra SUV's and FWD, but at the moment it is empty.  We are wondering if an EV dealership might take it over.

[onetrack]

The Chinese are driving EV (and battery) development with relentless research and development. The latest news is BYD has patented a Variable Flux, Permanent Magnet, Synchronous Motor.

The ability to vary the magnetic flux levels in an electric motor that is running, leads to more consistent torque output and reduced energy loss - especially at highway speeds.

This ability to vary the magnetic flux of the motor then leads to improved EV range, and lower thermal stress levels on the battery.

BYD's research also indicates they are developing improved stator and rotor designs, and magnetic flux control components, which all lead to greater EV efficiencies.

 

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/14/byd-advances-variable-flux-permanent-magnet-synchronous-motor-technology-patents-unveiled/

[facthunter]

There's NO other Motive Power approaching the efficiency of an electric Motor already.  Nev

[red750]

[nomadpete]

1 minute ago, red750 said:

If solar sheep are a new product, solar reindeer shouldn't give santa any range anxiety.

[onetrack]

I was quite surprised to find that solar panels perform admirably, even when covered with a layer of snow. Add in the fact that solar panels become more efficient at low temperatures, and the net result is solar panels are still quite suitable for wintery, cloudy, snowy climates.

 

https://www.ecoticias.com/en/confirmed-first-snowfall-covering-solar-panel/22395/

 

 

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

solar panels become more efficient at low temperatures

I wonder how efficient those panels are when the ambient temperature is 38C+.

 

It seems that higher temperatures decrease solar panel efficiency because heat increases electrical resistance, reducing voltage and overall power output, with most panels losing about 0.3-0.5% efficiency for every 1°C above the optimal 25°C (77°F) test condition. Solar panel efficiency, the rate sunlight becomes electricity, typically ranges from 17-24% for common panels.

 

At 40C, temperature rise from 25C = 15C.

Reduction in efficency  due to temperature: 15 x 0.05 = 0.75%

Assumed solar panel efficiency: 20%

Reduction in efficiency:   20 - (0.2 x 0.75) = 20 - 0.15  = 19.85%

 

Doesn't seem much, does it, but that would be per panel. How many panels on a farm?

[facthunter]

How long is a Piece of string? Even on HOT days MY solar Array (Now over 15 years old ) puts out about 20 KWhrs per day THAT would charge the Usual Battery TWICE over. It's been washed ONCE.    The original MAx Rated was 4.15 Kw. It HAD to be less than 5 in those days and I paid 4x what you would get better for today and that's numerical. No allowance for Inflation. Nev

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, onetrack said:

I was quite surprised to find that solar panels perform admirably, even when covered with a layer of snow. Add in the fact that solar panels become more efficient at low temperatures, and the net result is solar panels are still quite suitable for wintery, cloudy, snowy climates.

 

https://www.ecoticias.com/en/confirmed-first-snowfall-covering-solar-panel/22395/

 

 

M

I used to think that solar panels needed full sun. But my biggest surprise is seeing useful energy whilst it is overcast and drizzling.  Sure is is only a tenth or so of the maximum. But that is still useful and free energy.

 

Recent mostly rainy winters days have provided up to 8kwh a day from a old 3kw system.

It had paid for itself about 3 years ago.

Edited December 24, 2025 by nomadpete

[kgwilson]

I recently installed a new system as when we bought the property it had 8 x 175 watt panels approx 20 years old & the best out put I was getting in the middle of the day in Spring was about 950 watts. Each new panel is rated at 440 watts but are bi-facial so also generate from reflected light from the roof below. I have 20 panels arranged in 7 East facing, 6 North facing & 7 West facing on my Garage & Shed roofs at approximately 15 degrees of tilt. Total theoretical maximum generation 8.8 kW. Also installed is a 10kWh hybrid inverter and an 18.64 kWh battery. Installation was on 24 November 2025.

 

Results to date are astounding. Heat hasn't made much difference as far as I can tell. We have had numerous days in the mid 30s & a few high 30s. The maximum generation has been 10 kW from a theoretical 8.8kW. Documentation states Up to 15% more from the reflected light to the under side of the panel so that is almost what has been achieved. There is considerable skepticism as to bi-facial effectiveness but my system proves it works as specified.

 

Not only that, I haven't used any grid power at all & have had air conditioning on most of the time with everything in the house electric (except the gas BBQ & solar hot water). I have also charged my EV & 80 volt zero turn mower from the system. The total cost was $11,600.00 & I reckon 4-5 years payback.

 

Anyone with a reasonable rooftop solar system should take advantage of the battery subsidies on offer. Our battery has never depleted below 60% overnight so a large battery (more than 15 kWh) is likely to be overkill for most people.

 

The Federal subsidy scheme has been so successful that the $3.2 billion, expected to last till 2030 is half gone already & the scheme is being modified as installers were encouraging huge batteries (up to 50kWh) not up to 15kW that they were expecting. This was due to the subsidy being based on $ per kWh & a big battery could be installed for way less per kWh than a small one.

 

All I am paying now is the daily supply charge. Some retailers are now charging over $2.00 a day for this. If all goes well over the next year I may pull the plug on the grid entirely.

 

[nomadpete]

Meet the recyclers (in USA).

For those who care about recycling lithium batteries, there are significant recycling companies in USA.

 

Li-Cycle (NYSE: LICY) alone has recycling centers in Alabama, Arizona, and Germany. the German plant alone is processing 10,000 tonnes a year and the coming New York one is expected to move 35,000 tonnes.

 

 

 

https://events.naatbatt.org/lithium-battery-recycling-workshop-vii/meet-the-recyclers/

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, nomadpete said:

For those who care about recycling lithium batteries, there are significant recycling companies in USA.

Batteries for recycling have some amount of dollar value. If we sent our batteries to the USA, woulf the recylcing plant in the USA have to pay a tariff on them?

[facthunter]

Most likely they would. 

[nomadpete]

I simply pointed out that the recycling industry is tooling up to provide recycling.

There have been lots of doomsday sadsacks claiming that EV's are a pollution problem. It looks like the EV has a more profitable recycling lifecycle than piston powered vehicles.

[octave]

 

Why China Is Quietly Winning At EV Battery Recycling

[kgwilson]

The main problem with recycling EV batteries in Australia is that there have not been enough of them to warrant the creation of a recycling plant. This will of course change as more EVs are added to the Australian vehicle fleet. The early recycling plants in the US (there are a number of good You tube videos) have proven that almost all of the critical minerals are recyclable. We just do not have the volume at this stage & that is all lithium based batteries able to be recycled.

 

At this stage old EV batteries are still quite valuable for use as home or commercial energy storage but there are few available & mostly they are from early BMW or Nissan Leaf EVs as well as those recovered from crashed EVs. I imagine the federal and state governments battery subsidies will have the effect of reducing the value of these as well. Once an EV battery gets to about 70% of its original storage capacity, it still has many years of home storage left even though no longer useful in the EV. Add to that the fact that EV batteries are lasting considerably longer than original predictions. I have done just over 35,000km in my 2023 MG4 & battery health is still showing 100%

 

The good thing about all of this is that batteries have a circular life with 96% of materials being recovered during recycling. Compare that to fossil fuels which are used once & then they are gone.

[red750]

I see where BYD are outselling Teslas.

[onetrack]

The Chinese have set as their goal, world domination of the EV market - and I cannot see anything stopping them from taking that crown.