Chairman Dan

[octave]

There are plenty of cities around the world that have been improved by reducing car traffic and turning over more space to pedestrians, cyclists, mobility scooters, etc.   These cities are thriving and although some of these changes were opposed initially they are now extremely popular.     

I know in many European cities those who do need to drive appreciate the fact that there are far few cars on the road.

 

In some of these cycling-friendly cities, you will see whole families from the elderly to young children cycling on 2, 3, or 4 wheels as well as mobility scooters.     I grew up in Adelaide and I am old enough to remember Rundle Street.  The proposal to build a mall caused outrage amongst some and yet no one would want to tear it up now and turn it into a congested street.  Certainly, businesses would not want that.

 

Last year my son spent a few weeks in Los Angeles and although he is a car lover he hated that it was pretty difficult to walk anywhere.  Not only was it difficult, I think people considered him eccentric for wanting to walk to the local coffee shop.

 

As Jerry points out there will always be a need for some vehicles in the CBD however making streets pedestrian/bike/mobility scooter friendly is definitely better than bumper-to-bumper traffic.    I don't think I have driven into the cities for many years, it is the most expensive and onerous method of getting there.  

[red750]

I acknowledge the original custodians o the land on which this post was written.

 

I haven't been to the CBD for at least two and a half years, probably won't go again.

[facthunter]

There's a lot of trucks mixed with the traffic in Melbourne. It should be possible to bypass the place more easily than it is,  Particularly if you are coming from the North and going to the East and reverse. There's supposed to be a new road going from  the Western Highway to the North as well  passing north of the Airport.  Nev

[facthunter]

The Botanical Gardens is worth a visit.  Nev

[red750]

I acknowledge the original custodians o the land on which this post was written.

 

My accountant's office is in the CBD. I'll have to deal by phone or email.

[spacesailor]

What happens to the ' disability driver's ', that have difficulty Walking anywhere. 

As for ' public transport ',  it takes four times longer, & a couple of blocks to get to those pick up 

( bus/ train ) stops .

It's been near twenty years since I could WALK to catch a bus or get to a train station. 

Close the road and I will not go there . Simples. 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

 

When I go into the city from Geelong (about 6 times a year)  I hop on the Vline ($4 for seniors).  We usually go in for leisure activities although next month I do have an appointment on Elizabeth Street.  On the train, I would probably listen to a podcast.

 I will get off at Southern Cross and make the short walk to my destination or if the weather is bad I would hop on the tram from Southern Cross which is totally free. Perhaps after my appointment, I could have a couple of drinks.   I could of course drive my car which would take about the same time not including cruising around looking for a park close to my destination if possible. I would probably give the couple of drinks a miss if I was driving.

 

15 minutes ago, red750 said:

My accountant's office is in the CBD. I'll have to deal by phone or email.

You do know that these proposals do not include a total ban on cars from the city?    In any case phone or email sounds pretty good!    What is wrong with public transport?  

[octave]

3 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

What happens to the ' disability driver's ', that have difficulty Walking anywhere.

 

They can still drive, they are not banning all cars in fact more pedestrian space is good for mobility scooters and wheelchair users. Driving a mobility scooter down a narrow crowded pavement must be difficult. Why would you not want more space for mobility scooters etc?

 

9 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

As for ' public transport ',  it takes four times longer,

 

Perhaps we have better public transport.  Looking at google maps the predicted time for me to drive into town is 55 minutes (much much longer in peak hour) and on the train 1 hour and 4 minutes. If I drive I then need to find a park.

 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

It took ( years ago ) just under 2 hours , to go to Parramatta.  ( 1 hour 40 something minutes)

But , by car it takes a slow driver , 7 minutes to Westmead hospital  then through the Parramatta 

Park , to O'Connell St Parramatta,  with packing stations all over the city ,

All of ten minutes .

spacesailor

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

No matter how much is invested in public transport, you will always find situations that a car will beat it. And it doesn't matter how many horsepower you sink into a car, you will always find situations where public transport will beat the car.

 

On the whole, in cities, public transport normally wins.

 

When I go to London for work, I do drive for two reasons: 1) I can't get trains to get me from where I am to the office until reasonably past 9am. I like to be in the office at 6 or 7 the latest. 2) to get me to London for 9am and to hop on a return train the next day at about 7pm vosts about £280 - it is cheaper to fly from Exeter to London City.. The return car trip is about £70 + say £20 for wear and tear and add on £24 for 2 days zone 1 - 4 travelcard.

 

My drive starts at 3 - 3:30am and the fatest I can do it to Barnes or North Sheen stations (zone 3 outside London, on the right side of town for me) is 2.5 hours and that is risking a speeding ticket and some. Then it is about an hour on train and tube to get to Liverpool street. If I took the train, it would be about 1/2 hour to the station.

 

This is my driving route during mid spring, summer, to mid-Autumn:

 

I park at Barnes or North Sheen, which is one local train station further west, as these have free parking either at the station or close by. Then I hop on the train and it is an hour to get me to about where the L is on tme map marking London. The minimum time door to door I have done it is about 3.5 hours and everything went right - where every platform I hit (Liverpool street and Bank tube stations, then at Waterloo to get to Barnes) had me stepping onto a very soon to depart train; the roads were clear and I go virtually no red lights on the way nor did I have  to stop to top off the fueld tank nor empty my tank. The average is probably around 4.5 hours, which includes stopping to get fuel if needed, have a leak and maybe grab a bite.

 

If I took the train at the right time, it would be say 20 minutes to Paddington, 1:45 to Taunton, 30 minutes to get home - so around 2.5 hours all told.  I just checked a discount rail stite, and sadly, it is still £200 compared to c. £100 - just can't justify it. But I still won't take the car into London.

[spacesailor]

I & lots on this forum ,  Have to DRIVE to the airport .

In Sydnet we have Mascot,  ' from the west '  we take two train's .

Bankstown there's no rail at all, & no buses, from my area .

That leaves Candem & The Oaks , no public transport that way.

Road is king ! , Only if you drive .

spacesailor

PS

I can take a ferry from Parramatta to Circul quay Sydney .

But still drive to the ferry .

Edited May 30, 2023 by spacesailor
A little more !

[octave]

 

15 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I & lots on this forum ,  Have to DRIVE to the airport .

 

I would be very surprised if you could not get to Sydney airport effectively on public transport. Back in the 80s I was in the RAAF based at Richmond.  I seem to remember traveling to the airport on public transport. Perhaps things have gone downhill since then. Glad I live in Vic.  I travel interstate about 6 times a year. If I will be away for less than 7 days it is cheaper to drive and park in long-term parking. If it is over 7 days it is cheaper to train and Skybus.  When the airport rail link is finished it will be dirt cheap for me to take the train to the airport. 

[facthunter]

Is flying in a Commercial Airliner pleasant. anymore?   Nev

[octave]

Just now, facthunter said:

Is flying in a Commercial Airliner pleasant. anymore?   Nev

 

NO

[spacesailor]

But my point is the public transport doesn't go to were you want to go. .

The airport train goes from Sydney's main station. 

So travel all the way to the city.  Get another train going Back,  the same way you just past, before turning towards the airport. 

Why no station were the train diverts towards Mascot. 

But not to worry, that Badger's Creek airport .will be the same travel problems as the old one.

spacesailor

[octave]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

But my point is the public transport doesn't go to were you want to go. .

 

Sure, I have to go into the city from Geelong and then out to the Airport. There is a bus direct to the airport from Geelong which we have used but it is a little expensive.  When the train line to the airport is finished it will be cheap and quick.  The thing is you have the choice.  Clearly, you are not motivated by the cost and prefer to favour convenience.   The choice is yours. 

[spacesailor]

Richmond base in the eighty's was a Long bus drive down Windsor road,  that was Not sealed all the way .

Now it's a four lane congested highway .that has a new ' light rail' going somewhere .

spacesailor

[octave]

2 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Richmond base in the eighty's was a Long bus drive down Windsor road,  that was Not sealed all the way .

Now it's a four lane congested highway .that has a new ' light rail' going somewhere .

spacesailor

 

Nope, it was definitely sealed when I arrived in 1979. It was mostly a single lane each way though.    The train into the city started at Richmond and was not electrified.  The train was diesel and went to Riverstone where you changed for the electric train. The Diesel train was colloquially known as the Richmond Ratler.

[spacesailor]

Convenience. 

Try catching public transport, with two suitcases And your walker .

At least the airport helps you & provides a ' wheelchair ' ,so they can whizz you from here to there and not miss your flight .

I was very surprised at just how many are wheeled around the airports. 

spacesailor

[spacesailor]

In about 83 the Oaks road bridge was wooden,  & from there to Sunnyholt road 

It was dirt, 

Our route to Blacktown from Hammers road  Northmead. 

spacesailor

[octave]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

Convenience. 

Try catching public transport, with two suitcases And your walker .

At least the airport helps you & provides a ' wheelchair ' ,so they can whizz you from here to there and not miss your flight .

I was very surprised at just how many are wheeled around the airports. 

spacesailor

 

In which case car or taxi makes sense. It is about choosing to best-suited way, Nobody is banning cars, contrary to hysterical theories.  If you and I are going to the same airport you should be pleased that there is public transport for me to use.  Me not driving my car leaves an extra car park for you.  It also means less congestion so you can have a more efficient trip.

 

[red750]

4 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I & lots on this forum ,  Have to DRIVE to the airport .

Airport rail link website.

[spacesailor]

SO !

Were do all the Western Sydney people get onto that train .

Like I said.  " You catch two trains " .

So if you live in Penrith . You spend hours on public transport to get to the city.

Then head Southwest,  on the airport train  . 

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I understand people who live in Katoomba sometimes work in the City. Penrith is closer than that.   Nev

[octave]

25 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

SO !

Were do all the Western Sydney people get onto that train .

Like I said.  " You catch two trains " .

So if you live in Penrith . You spend hours on public transport to get to the city.

Then head Southwest,  on the airport train  . 

spacesailor

 

Using the NSW public transport planner I see that Penrith to the Airport by train should take 1 hour and 14 minutes.  Using google maps the same journey during the day is predicted to take between 45 minutes and 1 hour and 5 minutes depending on traffic.   

 

When I go to the airport as I do regularly I can go by train plus Skybus which takes about an hour and a half or I can drive which takes an hour to the long-term car park. Of course, I then must pay for parking and get the free bus from the car park to the terminal. Which ever of these methods I use I do not think I have much to whinge about.