Climbing Uluru

[willedoo]

Madness at the Rock.

 

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[gareth lacey]

I have walked around the base of Uluru it is quite magical, not being a follower of religion i did find it awe inspiring ,and as for climbing the rock i am with our indigenous countrymen be respectful, that mob looks to be a in a frenzy and tourists of this ilk usually have no respect and will trash the rock

 

 

[willedoo]

I'm not sure what the attraction of climbing the rock is. For some it might be just a been there, done that type of thing. If it's a sense of awe they seek, the Australian outback delivers that in spades without climbing up the rock. The photos of late of the crowds lining up to climb might as well be of crowds lining up to get into Sea World. It's a bit embarrassing.

 

 

[facthunter]

 Must be for a show and tell session. As for the awe. Its awe, it's bloody hot here, wish I was at the beach and could have a dip. Not at Darwin either. Too many bitey's. and sandflys.. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I think they have moved the walk around the base back well away from the rock itself. How this is justified is a mystery to me. I hope I'm wrong and that walking around the base is not being curtailed.

 

Plus, I don't think that the rock really sacred to the indiginous except of course its pecuniary value.

 

 

[octave]

I think they have moved the walk around the base back well away from the rock itself.

 

Bruce I can find no evidence of this, can you tell me why you think this may be the case? 

 

How this is justified is a mystery to me. I hope I'm wrong and that walking around the base is not being curtailed.

 

 Without knowing whether the walk has been banned or moved this question is rather premature and pointless.   

 

Plus, I don't think that the rock really sacred to the indiginous except of course its pecuniary value.

 

Again you think or you know.   You seem to be setting up a straw man argument here. 

 

You could actually determine  the facts before condemning the people involved.   

 

 

[willedoo]

http://theconversation.com/why-we-are-banning-tourists-from-climbing-uluru-86755

 

 

[Bruce]

I stand corrected. At least I hope you are right Octave, gosh they would be crazy to move the walk away at the same time as they banned climbing.

 

It is a bit of a culture clash, this climbing thing. I liked it. Firstly, you feel as if you have conquered the rock and secondly, the view is wonderful.

 

As far as proving the sacredness of the rock, how could you do that? All I know is that the dreamtime stories of the rock are similar to those of any other feature around Alice Springs. Mount Gillen has more stories I think, and one day it will may be  banned for climbing. 

 

As an example of the stories, women are forbidden, under tribal sacred tradition, from using Heavitree Gap, ( where the Todd river goes through Mount Gillen/ Mount John ) and this ban is enforced by powerful spirits who inhabit the gap. I personally have seen a fearful-looking group of women looking around as they walked through this gap. 

 

Hey, I've got an idea... how about we honour that ban. All women on the train will have to get off and detour about 20 miles.   The women will not be permitted to climb the mountain of course, and there is a sign on the whitefeller road which goes up to the TV towers that no unauthorised person  is allowed to use this road.  So whitefellers have a sacred tradition too, called "fear of litigation" I think.

 

 

[facthunter]

My information is that the "aborigines" them selves only went on to it for  rare and special significance occasions. Yes the aborigines do have MANY rules about women and who can marry who, Initiations etc and it's the rules they did live by for a very long time. Their paintings are often representative maps showing paths waterholes and meeting places. Like our older "Shell road maps". How well did whitefella react when Adam Goodes made a sign on the "HOLY Ground" of an AFL football field, against racism.. Who's being precious?  Yes also evil spirits are considered to be in some places and  rainbow serpent is not one to trifle with.. What's so different between that and pentecostalism? "We are in the last days" , stuff (as an example). Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

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[nomadpete]

There's at least $3000 worth of entry fees in that picture alone.....

 

Mentally extrapolate to the length of the climb, multiply by the number of hours daily.......

 

The till must be overflowing!

 

Hurrah! No indigenous child need live in poverty now!!!!

 

 

[willedoo]

Meanwhile, Pauline has shown the limitless dimensions of her buffoonery. She decided to climb the rock in protest, got 40 metres up, freaked out and had trouble getting back down. Best case scenario would have been if she'd made it to the top and they dismantled the guide rope and left her there.

 

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[nomadpete]

I don't get it, just what was she trying to protest?

 

Or was she simply trying to get some free media exposure?

 

All I see, is one more individual proving that climbing the rock doesn't prove anything, and really isn't much fun for most.

 

 

[Litespeed]

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I was I had a huge set of bowling balls. 

 

A game the local tribes could really benefit from.

 

 

[Bruce]

Coming down the rock, I noticed that all the people who looked white were Germans.

 

To test this theory, to  the next lot  who approached, I said " guten morgan" which I think means "good morning" .Well it was embarasing when they started talking rapid-fire German to me and I didn't understand a word.

 

 

[Bruce]

My wife says that they moved the walk back away from the rock not long after we were there. I remember the path being real close to the base of the rock itself .

 

 

[octave]

My wife says that they moved the walk back away from the rock not long after we were there. I remember the path being real close to the base of the rock itself .

 

I have not been myself  but here are some pictures taken by a friend of mine last week from the available walks.

 

You can walk around Uluru you can camp you can do segway tours around Uluru you can even tour around Uluru on a Harley motorcycle for goodness sake! 

 

https://www.ayersrockresort.com.au/experiences/detail/uluru-motorcycle-tours

 

https://www.ulurusegwaytours.com.au/

 

I am not a spiritual person  although I usually attempt to respect other peoples beliefs where possible. I think that purely for reasons of protecting a quite soft rock from scarring and the crass addition of chains and posts hammered in,  it is not a huge ask people to resist the urge to clamber over it.  

 

Rangers regularly climb the rock to bring down rubbish and according to a ranger interviewed recently sh1t.  Not to mention rescuing people who get into trouble. I believe 37 people have died on the rock.

 

If people want to see it then walk around it, camp near it, photograph it, even ride a Harley motorcycle around it, all these things are possible. Perhaps do a joy flight. 

 

As far as I am concerned this is pretty much a non issue. When I go to the aviation museum there are aircraft that I would love to climb inside an get a better look at but I can't.

 

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[pmccarthy]

I have climbed it four times but the best experience was a walk around the base when swarms of budgies, thousands of them, were at the waterholes.

 

 

[Bruce]

My real objection is about how the aborigines are acting without regard to money. If they do damage to the income-earning aspect of the rock, in my opinion they should get less income themselves. 

 

You can google up the percentage of NT aborigines on welfare and get the figure of about 86%. My guess is that many of the 14% have government jobs and very few indeed have real jobs. Some artists for sure, I don't know of any others who produce stuff of value.

 

Don't think I am blaming them for this. In fact they are being set up for tragedy when the wheels come off the whitefeller gravy train they are completely dependent on these days. Yes, road trains full of food come to their settlements and they buy their food there with welfare money.

 

What I would do is to use financial pressure to nudge them in the direction of more self-reliance. I see this climbing ban as a move in the opposite direction, and that is what I don't like about it.

 

I do know the place quite well, some years ago I was offered the job of buildings superintendent at Docker River. That's another story.

 

 

[willedoo]

Can't say I blame them for not wanting to get a job; it's not part of their culture. The concept of a ruling class, and a working class who must work for a boss, was introduced by the British who took over this country. As a personal opinion, I think even if 100% of them were on welfare, it's still cheap rent for us to pay for this wonderful country. But it doesn't fix the dependence problem.

 

I get mixed thoughts and opinions on the subject, having spent half my life out in that country. For full blood people, I can't see assimilation ever working. But I can also see the point where welfare has replaced a lot of traditionally active living.

 

 

[facthunter]

The olde England scene was feudal and the landlord extracted produce from the Peons. A form of slavery no less. What the Aborigines have is far more decent and non exploitive. They share which often looks like nepotism to us (jobs for the boys). ALL aborigines seem to regard natural things as very import and of the essence to their existence. We are all of this planet formed by it and made of the elements of it. It's a big pity we don't allow the  bond to form rather than play with  short life distracting trinkets that have little to do with the meaning of life of us and the other critters we share this marvellous place with. With the temperatures in the universe ranging from minus 273 C 0 kelvin to millions of degrees We have  perfect goldilocks temperatures here minerals and WATER. Check out the surface conditions likely on most other  heavenly bodies we know a little of.. Little blue planet is pretty special. How about we appreciate just HOW special it is?  and not trash it so readily for quick dollars . Learn a little from our darker  brothers who have been here longer than just about anybody has been anywhere.. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I was there before they got welfare. The station owners got money to feed and clothe aborigines, and the aborigines were thin and poorly clothed while the station owners drove late-model luxury cars.

 

It was the Russian invasion of Hungary which changed things, this is another story worth looking up.

 

Why should an aborigine have more claim on the land than I do? If his long-dead forebears were here before my long-dead ones, so what? Not many of them were here before I was , simply because of my age, but again I say so what?

 

There may be some merit in the argument, for those who inherit land, that some aborigines have an inheritance claim on that same  land too.  But for those of us who did not inherit land, yet again I say so what?

 

Maybe somewhere in Europe there would be native title for those who come from tribes who lived there before there was any concept of land ownership? I doubt it. So why should that apply here?

 

None of this is grudging of welfare money being given to them, or anybody else. But the welfare money should come with strings attached, for their own good. This applies regardless of race.

 

 

[facthunter]

  Yes we are spending too much money giving them accommodation in gaols which cost far to much and we  cop the cost. Check the incarceration figures and some are for not paying fines. People with bugger all money get GAOL for not paying MONEY!!!.  Do you realise how outrageous THAT is. The cheap grog  and $#1t food and bad diseases came from us and sure they  sometimes take floor boards up and use the wood for the fire heater when it's cold. We have removed the way of life they had and hunted them  and taken their land, dignity and pride and we then say "snap out of it and be grateful" because we are giving you all this money... Sorry that just doesn't gel with me. Nev

 

 

[octave]

My real objection is about how the aborigines are acting without regard to money. If they do damage to the income-earning aspect of the rock, in my opinion they should get less income themselves. 

 

The gate takings at Uluru are split between the local owners and national parks so yes IF it impacts on gate takings.   Until the recent the recent undignified flurry most people did not climb the rock an yet visitor numbers were healthy.  

 

You can google up the percentage of NT aborigines on welfare and get the figure of about 86%.

 

I did google it and could not find that.   When I post a figure I just about always post a link.  Apologies but I am always skeptical of unsourced assertions.    If you have already googled then why not include a link. 

 

 

[Bruce]

I again googled " percentage of aborigines on welfare NT" and saw the 86% figure. Personally, I was surprised it wasn't higher. Then I thought about the government jobs reserved for aborigines. 

 

Aside from artists, actors and footballers, I personally don't know of any aborigine productively employed without government help. There must be a few. But I reckon the 86% errs on the side of assigning more real jobs than is the case.

 

As an aside, this guy I know had a contract to teach aboriginal trainees how to drive earthmoving machinery at a NT mine. The guy was actually part-aborigine himself. Well he failed all the trainees and will never be asked back.