USA Guns

[hihosland]

America, can we talk? Let’s just cut the shit for once and actually talk about what’s going on without blustering and pretending we’re actually doing a good job at adulting as a country right now. We’re not. We’re really screwing this whole society thing up, and we have to do better. We don’t have a choice. People are dying. At this rate, it’s not if your kids, or mine, are involved in a shooting, it’s when. One of these happens every 60 hours on average in the US. If you think it can’t affect you, you’re wrong. Dead wrong. So let’s talk.

 

I’ll start. I’m an Army veteran. I like M-4’s, which are, for all practical purposes, an AR-15, just with a few extra features that people almost never use anyway. I’d say at least 70% of my formal weapons training is on that exact rifle, with the other 30% being split between various and sundry machineguns and grenade launchers. My experience is pretty representative of soldiers of my era. Most of us are really good with an M-4, and most of us like it at least reasonably well, because it is an objectively good rifle. I was good with an M-4, really good. I earned the Expert badge every time I went to the range, starting in Basic Training.

 

This isn’t uncommon. I can name dozens of other soldiers/veterans I know personally who can say the exact same thing. This rifle is surprisingly easy to use, completely idiot-proof really, has next to no recoil, comes apart and cleans up like a dream, and is light to carry around. I’m probably more accurate with it than I would be with pretty much any other weapon in existence. I like this rifle a lot. I like marksmanship as a sport. When I was in the military, I enjoyed combining these two things as often as they’d let me.

 

With all that said, enough is enough. My knee jerk reaction is to consider weapons like the AR-15 no big deal because it is my default setting. It’s where my training lies. It is my normal, because I learned how to fire a rifle IN THE ARMY. You know, while I may only have shot plastic targets on the ranges of Texas, Georgia, and Missouri, that’s not what those weapons were designed for, and those targets weren’t shaped like deer. They were shaped like people. Sometimes we even put little hats on them.

 

You learn to take a gut shot, “center mass,” because it’s a bigger target than the head, and also because if you maim the enemy soldier rather than killing him cleanly, more of his buddies will come out and get him, and you can shoot them, too. He’ll die of those injuries, but it’ll take him a while, giving you the chance to pick off as many of his compadres as you can. That’s how my Drill Sergeant explained it anyway. I’m sure there are many schools of thought on it. The fact is, though, when I went through my marksmanship training in the US Army, I was not learning how to be a competition shooter in the Olympics, or a good hunter. I was being taught how to kill people as efficiently as possible, and that was never a secret.

 

As an avowed pacifist now, it turns my stomach to even type the above words, but can you refute them? I can’t. Every weapon that a US Army soldier uses has the express purpose of killing human beings. That is what they are made for. The choice rifle for years has been some variant of what civilians are sold as an AR-15. Whether it was an M-4 or an M-16 matters little. The function is the same, and so is the purpose. These are not deer rifles. They are not target rifles. They are people killing rifles. Let’s stop pretending they’re not.

 

With this in mind, is anybody surprised that nearly every mass shooter in recent US history has used an AR-15 to commit their crime? And why wouldn’t they? High capacity magazine, ease of loading and unloading, almost no recoil, really accurate even without a scope, but numerous scopes available for high precision, great from a distance or up close, easy to carry, and readily available. You can buy one at Wal-Mart, or just about any sports store, and since they’re long guns, I don’t believe you have to be any more than 18 years old with a valid ID. This rifle was made for the modern mass shooter, especially the young one. If he could custom design a weapon to suit his sinister purposes, he couldn’t do a better job than Armalite did with this one already.

 

This rifle is so deadly and so easy to use that no civilian should be able to get their hands on one. We simply don’t need these things in society at large. I always find it interesting that when I was in the Army, and part of my job was to be incredibly proficient with this exact weapon, I never carried one at any point in garrison other than at the range. Our rifles lived in the arms room, cleaned and oiled, ready for the next range day or deployment. We didn’t carry them around just because we liked them. We didn’t bluster on about barracks defense and our second amendment rights. We tucked our rifles away in the arms room until the next time we needed them, just as it had been done since the Army’s inception.

 

The military police protected us from threats in garrison. They had 9 mm Berettas to carry. They were the only soldiers who carry weapons in garrison. We trusted them to protect us, and they delivered. With notably rare exceptions, this system has worked well. There are fewer shootings on Army posts than in society in general, probably because soldiers are actively discouraged from walking around with rifles, despite being impeccably well trained with them.

 

Perchance, we could have the largely untrained civilian population take a page from that book?

 

I understand that people want to be able to own guns. That’s ok. We just need to really think about how we’re managing this. Yes, we have to manage it, just as we manage car ownership. People have to get a license to operate a car, and if you operate a car without a license, you’re going to get in trouble for that. We manage all things in society that can pose a danger to other people by their misuse.

 

In addition to cars, we manage drugs, alcohol, exotic animals (there are certain zip codes where you can’t own Serval cats, for example), and fireworks, among other things. We restrict what types of businesses can operate in which zones of the city or county. We have a whole system of permitting for just about any activity a person wants to conduct since those activities could affect others, and we realize, as a society, that we need to try to minimize the risk to other people that comes from the chosen activities of those around them in which they have no say. Gun ownership is the one thing our country collectively refuses to manage, and the result is a lot of dead people.

 

I can’t drive a Formula One car to work. It would be really cool to be able to do that, and I could probably cut my commute time by a lot. Hey, I’m a good driver, a responsible Formula One owner. You shouldn’t be scared to be on the freeway next to me as I zip around you at 140 MPH, leaving your Mazda in a cloud of dust! Why are you scared? Cars don’t kill people. People kill people. Doesn’t this sound like bullshit? It is bullshit, and everybody knows. Not one person I know would argue non-ironically that Formula One cars on the freeway are a good idea. Yet, these same people will say it’s totally ok to own the firearm equivalent because, in the words of comedian Jim Jeffries, “fuck you, I like guns.”

 

Yes, yes, I hear you now. We have a second amendment to the constitution, which must be held sacrosanct over all other amendments. Dude. No. The constitution was made to be a malleable document. It’s intentionally vague. We can enact gun control without infringing on the right to bear arms. You can have your deer rifle. You can have your shotgun that you love to shoot clay pigeons with. You can have your target pistol. Get a license. Get a training course. Recertify at a predetermined interval. You do not need a military grade rifle. You don’t. There’s no excuse.

 

“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the government, and needing military style rifles for that purpose. You’re not going to stand up to the government with this thing. They’d take you out in about half a second.

 

Let’s be honest. You just want a cool toy, and for the vast majority of people, that’s all an AR-15 is. It’s something fun to take to the range and put some really wicked holes in a piece of paper. Good for you. I know how enjoyable that is. I’m sure for a certain percentage of people, they might not kill anyone driving a Formula One car down the freeway, or owning a Cheetah as a pet, or setting off professional grade fireworks without a permit. Some people are good with this stuff, and some people are lucky, but those cases don’t negate the overall rule.

 

Military style rifles have been the choice du jour in the incidents that have made our country the mass shootings capitol of the world. Formula One cars aren’t good for commuting. Cheetahs are bitey. Professional grade fireworks will probably take your hand off. All but one of these are common sense to the average American. Let’s fix that. Be honest, you don’t need that AR-15. Nobody does. Society needs them gone, no matter how good you may be with yours. Kids are dying, and it’s time to stop fucking around.

 

Anastasia Bernoulli

 

Posted on the

 

scarymommy website

 

 

[Yenn]

So what. The above has nothing to do with Australia.. Several presidents have tried to fix the problem and failed. the present president will not achieve any fix and probably doesn't want to.

 

We got the problem fixed in Australia, but it was nowhere near the problem that it is in USA.

 

I cannot see what all the rambling on about army training has to do with the problem. Some of those who have committed murders are war veterans and maybe their service experience contributed to the problem.

 

The USA is one of the most religious countries, with a large proportion of the population believing in a god. It also appears to be unstable, with hatred and racism prevalent.

 

I feel much safer in a secular country, not surrounded by lunatics.

 

 

[hihosland]

interesting that the USA put "in God we Trust" on their currency in '57 or thereabouts and with or without God's help it seems to have been all down hill since then

 

 

[Marty_d]

If they didn't do anything after kindergarten kids got slaughtered at Sandy Hook, they're not going to do anything now. "Thoughts and prayers" might make corrupt/ineffective/pig-headed politicians feel better, but it doesn't solve the problem.

 

If the American people don't stand up for this - a big majority of them that is - then nothing will change. I love that article in the OP. What she's saying is that the US has a big fat blind spot when it comes to weapons.

 

Trouble is that it's too long for the modern attention span and won't convince any gun-loving nuts anyway.

 

 

[facthunter]

Thinking requires a lot of energy. This appears to be the only area where the Yanks are saving on it.. US of A, you've got problems. by many measures. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The mythmakers created this monster and they are the only way out. It might take a generation, but history has shown that people can change.

 

Trouble is I doubt the USA has enough time left.

 

 

[facthunter]

They are going to take all of us with them. I didn't vote for Trump. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I didn't know that " in God we trust" was as recent as 57. I do know that Thomas Jefferson said that the book of revelation was clearly written by a lunatic.

 

So the US has gone backwards with respect to superstition. No president could make a Jefferson comment today. So the country briefly rose above its origins, but didn't stay there.

 

The Pilgrim Fathers were a nasty lot , who came, not to escape persecution but to be free to persecute. Look at the trial of the farmhand Spencer to see an example

 

( Spencer had one eye, and one day a sow at the farm gave birth to a one-eyed piglet. Spencer was tried and executed for " having lain with the sow"). The depth of ignorance and evil is staggering in that story. Yet these were the founders of the US.

 

 

[Marty_d]

As usual, the New Yorker has something pertinent to say about it...

 

Link Found Between Gun Violence and Cowardly Politicians

 

 

[old man emu]

This is the latest "must have" thing for American school kids

 

Bulletproof backpacks have become another back-to-school staple

 

 

[willedoo]

This is the latest "must have" thing for American school kidsBulletproof backpacks have become another back-to-school staple

Lucky we don't need them in this country. You'd go to jail for possessing one here.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Would that be illegal?

 

What stapling a back pack onto a child's back? What if the stapler was yours not the schools?

 

I'll get back in my cave

 

 

[facthunter]

Since nothing happens unless it's god's will, what Trump does is "god's will". They actually SAY these things. God MUST HAVE wanted Trump to be the president. And by inference HE must have approved A Hitler to lead germany into a world war.. The NUTS are running the Peanut factory. Nev

 

 

[Litespeed]

That's it then, we need to find that mongrel Dog and chop his balls off.

 

He has really farked everything up.

 

 

[facthunter]

Well, HE made us in his own image. I reckon it's the other way around. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

Would that be illegal?

Spot on!.

 

In New South Wales, bulletproof vests are (somewhat ironically) classified as prohibited weapons under Schedule 1 of the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998. This means that it is illegal to use or possess a bulletproof vest without a valid permit. To many, this might simply seem illogical – bulletproof vests don’t hurt anybody, so why should they be illegal? Surely people who are at risk of harm, or who have been threatened, should be able to wear vests to protect themselves.

 

The basis for this seemingly nonsensical law is the danger that criminals may come into possession of bulletproof vests, and use them to protect themselves or avoid arrest when committing crimes. The problem is that simply making something illegal does not necessarily make that thing inaccessible. On the other hand, it is difficult to argue that bulletproof vests pose any danger to other people – on the contrary, they offer a form of protection against violent attacks.

 

Another argument that is sometimes advanced in support of our existing weapons laws is the classic, yet somewhat naïve maxim, ‘if you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear.’ In other words, we shouldn’t feel the necessity to protect ourselves if we are merely innocent citizens, because there is nothing out there to harm us.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Anytime a government say " if you have nothing to hide......."

 

We should be very worried, that has long been the maxim of fascist states.

 

You know men in black shirts with faces covered, big guns and a overarching super ministry controlling the populace.

 

Just like .....our new " home affairs".

 

There is a reason the uniform is black and they are Border Force not service.

 

 

[willedoo]

Would that be illegal?

What stapling a back pack onto a child's back? What if the stapler was yours not the schools?

 

I'll get back in my cave

If the backpack can withstand small arms fire it would be classed as body armour in the weapons legislation of the various states. Body armour has a restricted category all of it's own in the legislation. In Queensland the penalty for possession is $10,000 fine and/or four years jail.

 

The definition differs between the states and that of customs for import. Customs were defeated in a court case, so they changed their definition to cover anything they deem body armour, whether bullet resistant or not. So that would include flak jackets. In most states, it still has to withstand small arms fire at point blank range to be illegal. That's in Qld.; In Victoria the law might be tighter.

 

 

[old man emu]

Ridiculous, isn't it? A country of 25 million and eight governments and still they can't make a legal definition of what the populous calls "bullet-proof vests" (Yes, I know they are only bullet resistant.)

 

 

[spacesailor]

"

 

HE must have approved A Hitler to lead germany into a world war.. The NUTS are running the Peanut factory.

 

A. H.was very well liked by his People In the beginning,

 

Body armour is what the motor cyclist wear !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

Ridiculous, isn't it? A country of 25 million and eight governments and still they can't make a legal definition of what the populous calls "bullet-proof vests" (Yes, I know they are only bullet resistant.)

There's often a lot of difference between federal customs import laws and state's weapons legislation. For instance, most plastic toy guns (water pistols etc.) are legal in the states and you can walk into toyworld and buy one. But if you buy one on eBay from overseas, customs will declare it an imitation firearm and seize it on entry to the country. If you've applied for and received a firearm importation permit from your state police, dated before the import date, you can provide that to customs and get your water pistol. If you don't have a permit, customs will destroy it.

 

The issue with customs is importation without that permit. If you have the piece of paper from the police, customs release it. I'd assume the toy importers have an ongoing permit for bulk lots.

 

 

[facthunter]

And grid iron players and cricketers and motorcyclists. Defense can't be a weapon. If only people thought clearly we might progress something worthwhile (one day). I have quite an arsenal of Grease GUNS but only you and I know that. Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

He has really farked everything up.

And I don't think he's a very nice person either. He made a beautiful planet in six days, then turned around and filled it with animals that kill and eat each other. And then he has this really nice place in the sky but you're only allowed to go there if you have water splashed on your head and read a special book. You gets the bum's rush if you read the wrong book. No wonder he backed Trump. Two peas in a pod by the sound of it.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

And grid iron players and cricketers and motorcyclists. Defense can't be a weapon...

Try carrying a motorcycle helmet onto a passenger jet.

 

 

[facthunter]

Motorcyclists have always been treated as second class citizens. Nev