octave

I can relate to this when visiting my son last time he lent us this car to get around in. Loads of fun to drive but comical to get in and out of. As far as Teslas go I don't really see the Model 3 as being ugly. The Model S to me at least has less pleasing proportions. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This is my son's Model 3 the day he picked it up. Fun fact about 3 months later I had an "incident" that resulted in a dent in this vehicle.

EVs require more energy to manufacture and therefore have a greater environmental footprint than IC however this is compensated after a certain period. This explanation seems reasonable. Are Electric Cars Worse For The Environment? I guess we need to define safe. I would assert that if we take a harsh attitude petrol cars are not safe. Deaths and injuries in petrol or diesel car fires are reasonably rare but none the less, it still happens. I believe in Australia there were about 13000 EVs whilst in Norway at this time there were about 600000 EVs. It would seem that looking at the experiences of countries that are way ahead of us would yield interesting information about the safety of EVs. Whilst battery recycling has been slow to start it is being done now. Partly it is hard for a recycling system to develop when there are so few end-of-life batteries around. Recycling does occur as well re-use in second-life stationary power systems. Batteries are generally lasting longer than originally expected. Many EVs are using LiFePO4 which has advantages in safety and environmental friendliness although not quite as energy-dense. I don't particularly with we are rushing like a bull at a gate toward total EV. I would suspect that the overturning of horses by petrol vehicles was done at a much more rapid pace. Certainly, early aviation could not be considered safe. I am not suggesting everyone must rush out and buy one however I do think there is some hysteria amongst some folks. When there is a fire involving a car online comments are usually along the lines of, I bet it was an EV or I heard it was an EV

I only searched for incidents in recent times in Melbourne and this was not all of them. I would suspect that a search for NSW would yield a similar number of incidents.

Vehicles of all sorts occasionally catch fire. The important question is what is the rate of fires diesel vs petrol vs electric per KM driven. Another factor is how these common occurrences are dealt with. I am assuming that the recent electric truck fire has been successfully dealt with by now. People tend to think aviation is dangerous when 1 crash is reported in the news but happily ignore many other crashes. Massive Truck Fire On Princes Highway Driver escapes serious injury after truck catches fire on busy Melbourne freeway Truck fire causes major delays on Melbourne road Truck carrying TVs engulfed in flames on Tullamarine Freeway, Brunswick West Massive truck blaze disrupts traffic on Melbourne’s Western Ring Road Truck fire closes lanes on Melbourne's Eastern Freeway at Doncaster

Democracy is not free. We could save an awful lot of money by never having the opportunity to vote.

To me it is more palatable to believe that people fell for fear and misinformation than that they were unprepared to give the smallest of changes that would not have impacted their own lives at all. Some of the no campaigners such as Mundine and Price advocated no because they thought it did not go far enough. Mundine in an interview said that the struggle for a treaty would start after a no vote. I am betting that these stars of the no vote will be dropped pretty quickly by the conservatives. We have voted for the status quo. We were to afraid to adopt system like pretty much every other country in a similar position. I fear we deserve our international reputation.

I suspect that is rare. My wife spent time at a couple of booths handing out vote yes cards and there were certainly as many no volunteers. I am guessing in your polling booth there were not enough committed no voters to hand out how to vote cards.

I think it is more a case of some of the no campaigning being Trump like in the relying on creating fear and uncertainty. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-05/united-nations-voice-conspiracy-misinformation-spread-revealed/102932852

I actually had a vehicle catch fire whilst I was driving it. It was about 20 or so years ago. I was driving my Mitsubishi L300 van, which has the seat over the engine. I asked the fire fighter if this was an unusual occurrence. He said they are called to several each week. Anyway the van was a right off.

This is an interesting article about the two varieties in the "no" camp. The conservative "no" and and the progressive "no". https://theconversation.com/there-are-two-sides-to-the-no-campaign-on-the-voice-who-are-they-and-why-are-they-opposed-to-it-212362

Sounds like a myth to me. https://www.youngdriverfactbase.com/the-issues/ethnicity/

If you are suggesting favouritism to one side, the AEC has clarified that you can wear a yes or no t shirt. They can't stop you but would rather people did not. This is not a one sided rule. https://www.smh.com.au/national/voting-in-a-campaign-t-shirt-the-aec-suggests-you-bring-a-cardigan-20231012-p5ebqf.html "The same rules would apply to anyone wearing No paraphernalia."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-16/fact-check-jacinta-nampijinpa-price-secret-documents-niaa/102485040

Red I have not specifically talked about the treaty in NZ. The point I have been making is that the argument that the voice will make us into a divided society seems unlikely since New Zealand has various arrangements and they are not a bitterly divided society. How do I know? My son who moved to NZ 14 years ago and recently became a citizen. He is visiting at the moment and he would like to assure you that NZ is a good place to live. No one is trying to take his land or anything. There are plenty of other countries with various arrangements and the wheels aren't falling off. When ATSIC came into being did your life get worse? When ATSIC was abolished did your life suddenly improve? The voice will more than likely fail In my view this will be internationally embarrassing.

Good luck with that. Warren Mundine says that he believes a no vote will allow a push for a treaty. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/17/split-emerges-in-no-campaign-as-mundine-says-opposing-voice-makes-treaties-more-likely

Paranoid Trumpian BS. I would like to respect all no voters but there seems to be some crazy people out there https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-09/voice-referendum-cross-of-remembrance-vandalised-victor-harbor/102950232

Would never have got it without your clue.

Charlton Heston?

Donald Trump Gets McDonald's Delivered To Court During Civil Fraud Trial

Imagine if Sky News had to account for the balance of their content. ABC, battered by criticism, tracks Voice coverage down to the second

I listen to a lot of ABC radio and I have heard interviews with all the leading Yes and No people. Insiders alternate their guests. Last week was an interview with Warren Mundine. This is a hell of a lot more balanced than Sky News or News corp.

I don't think I have seen any Yes posters with the AEC logo on it. A quick search doesn't yield examples as far as I can see, unless the logo is tiny or on the back or something. If there are Yes or No posters with the AEC logo on I am not convinced it would sway anyone either way. https://www.google.com/search?q=vote+yes+posters+the+voice&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi5taK5z92BAxX9a2wGHaV5DF0Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=vote+yes+posters+the+voice&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDDoECCMQJ1CvCVivCWC3GWgAcAB4AIABkQGIAZ8CkgEDMC4ymAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=MP8dZbndOf3XseMPpfOx6AU&bih=1025&biw=2133&rlz=1C1CHZO_enAU915AU915

Here's the facts about multiple voting - it is negligible in Australia https://www.6newsau.com/post/here-s-the-facts-about-multiple-voting-it-is-negligible-in-australia Updated: 10 hours ago An AEC tweet has sparked discussion about people voting multiple times in the Voice referendum. A tweet from the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) about the possibility of multiple voting at the Voice to Parliament referendum has sparked discussion and some false claims on social media. "If someone votes at two different polling places within their electorate, and places their formal vote in the ballot box at each polling place, their vote is counted," the AEC said. The AEC provided initial context in the replies, however only one of their tweets has widely spread, missing important context. Their website has additional information on the specifics around multiple voting. Here's the facts: Multiple voting is illegal, and previous elections have shown it is negligible in Australia. Just 0.03% of the 91.9% turnout for the 2019 federal election were multiple mark-offs, and following the 2013 federal election, 2,000 people admitted to voting twice - just 0.014% of the total votes. (It goes without saying that this is not about someone voting in the House of Representatives and then in the Senate at the same time). As then-Acting Electoral Commissioner Tom Rogers (who is now the Electoral Commissioner) told a Senate committee in 2013, "the greater majority of those, over 81 per cent" were elderly, had poor literacy skills, or had a "low comprehension of the electoral process". Psephologist Dr Kevin Bonham, who has also previously scrutineered at multiple elections before, estimates multiple votes "might be something like [very roughly] 0.01%". "Many apparent multiple votes are clerical errors...of the remainder, the vast majority are unintentional - usually voters with issues such as senility or confusion about the process," he said on Twitter. When voting, polling booth workers will ask all voters for their full name, address, and whether they’ve voted before in the election. If voters answer 'no' to the third question, their names are marked off the electoral roll, they receive their ballot papers and are then able to vote. Immediately following any election, or referendum, the AEC will digitally cross-reference the electoral rolls against certified electoral lists (an electronic list of eligible electors) to check if there are multiple marks against names. The AEC will then contact anyone suspected of voting more than once to get information of when, where and if they voted. 6 News has contacted the AEC, who confirmed this is the process for both elections and referendums. The AEC has again confirmed today: "The instances of multiple marks have never been of a significant volume and never more than the margin in an election. We have electronic certified lists across all pre-polls and continuing to many on-the-day polling places with real-time mark-off of the roll." The electoral commission can, and has previously, referred cases of multiple voting to the Australian Federal Police, with imprisonment possible. "Multiple voting under the Electoral Act or the Referendum Act may take the form of a person voting more than once under their own name. For example, where a person attends more than one polling place on election day or votes more than once using early or postal voting. 20," the AEC website says. "Multiple voting may also be voting more than once by both voting in their own name, and also voting in the name of another person or persons. For example, in addition to casting their own vote, a person may go to a polling place, claim to be another person whom they know is on the roll for that division, have that person’s name marked off the certified list, and cast another vote."

So this is no different from any other election? I would imagine that to materially change the result many people would have to vote more than once, especially in a simple binary choice It is more relevant in an election where a seat may only have 100000 voters. It would take great commitment given the penalties. 12. Are there penalties for illegal voting? Yes – up to $6600 fine and/or two years imprisonment. Although with anonymous ballots it would be impossible to weed out multiple voter's votes it would probably be possible to ascertain if enough multiple votes had been cast to change the outcome. This is not a new issue though, is it? It is the same as any other election. My fear is that we are starting to drift down the Trumpian road of crying "rigged election" If as I expect the no-vote wins, I may be annoyed about obvious false advertising but I will certainly accept the result as I do with every other election.