Dutch and Aussie (right wing) governments hold Russia to blame for MH17 disaster.

[Methusala]

I see that the "investigation" into the MH 17 murder has been pinged to the Russian defence forces even though they were not in possession of the particular type of BUK missile that downed the plane. You have to ask whether anyone really believes this propaganda from the west media after the "dirty dossier" and Sadams WMD fiasco that led to war in Iraq.

 

 

[willedoo]

The first thing that rings alarm bells is an international investigation that would not allow Russia to be a part of it, nor would it allow Russia to provide any of their data.

 

The second thing is the statement that the investigation has 'convincing' evidence, but you guessed it, they won't make that convincing evidence public. The convincing evidence has mainly come from the Ukraine security agency (who has a vested interest in the thing), and social media posts. Bellingcat, the online bloggers, seem to be the basis of a lot of this convincing evidence, as well as the SBU.

 

Quite some time back, the U.S. said they had data (which they couldn't make public, naturally) that proved from where the missile was fired and who fired it.

 

Now the international investigation says they know where the missile came from, but don't know who was responsible for firing it. So why don't they just ask the U.S., as they've claimed they know who fired it. Someone is jerking our chain, and I'm fairly sure it isn't the Russians..

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

In a criminal case, the accused is rarely invited to join the investigation, so I am not surprised the Russians weren't allowed to participate in the investigation; Of course, they should be allowed to supply evidence in the same way an accused can.

 

Like the Skripals here, these investigations are about propping up pollies - truth has nothing to do with it

 

 

[willedoo]

Problem here, Jerry, it was not a criminal case with Russia as the accused having to defend themselves. It was an investigation into the downing of the flight. The aircraft had entered Russia's air traffic control area, so it should have been part of the investigation.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes - I was drawing a parallel with criminal cases.. If the jet was in Russia's airspace when it was shot down, then shouldn't Russia, by ICAO's rules, been leading the investigation? Russia has not been scared of admitting when it has done so in the past: Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia

 

 

[Methusala]

Speaking of criminal matters, it is the first question that investigators ask themselves when launching any probe; vis,"Cuo Bono?" or who benefits from this act. What would it benefit a group of fighters trying to reclaim their land from invaders by downing a commercial airliner? I have read an opinion (call it a rumour) that Putin's aircraft was expected in the same area and that this was an attempt by the CIA backed coup running Ukraine to shoot it down. I just add this to show how a rationale can be added to any theory. There is a lot of propaganda swirling around and this is timed to coincide with Russia's hosting of the World Cup.

 

 

[willedoo]

Putin's plane was flying back to Russia from a BRICS meeting that day, and it is a very similar colour scheme to Malaysia Airlines. But his plane took a route further to the south and avoided the conflict zone. Some theories state that Ukrainian forces were trying to down Putin. I personally don't subscribe to that theory.

 

One problem is that the facts get lost in the media hype and some of the tripe put out by governments that have an interest in bashing the designated baddie for political gain. I remember when the media drivel was going on about Russian anti aircraft missiles doing the deed. To the average punter, that would be gospel that Russia did it. Then, it became more widely known that Ukraine has about 30 BUK missile battalions inherited from the Soviet Union. So the media started referring to them as Russian made missiles. It still makes Russia look bad, but the fact remains that all those missiles belonging to the Ukraine military forces are Soviet made (in the Russian Soviet Republic) .

 

The fact that Ukraine has a history of shooting down airliners has no bearing on it. When they shot down the Siberian Airlines airliner, they admitted their mistake. I think the investigation into MH17 should be more forensic and scientific and less relying on social media posts. We're entering a very dangerous period in the history of mankind when countries are bombed on evidence based on facebook and twitter posts. It's happened already and will happen again.

 

 

[Methusala]

This is a link to a story which gives credibility to the claim that the Dutch/Australian Joint Investigative Team's findings are fatally compromised by allowing Ukraine (a suspect party to the attack) right of refusal to allow independent examination of the evidence presented to the inquiry. Russia's Department of Defence has stated that all BUK missiles in their possession were removed from service in 2011 having surpassed their 25 yrs service life.

 

Russian MoD: Missiles Shown By MH17 Investigators Were Decommissioned After 2011

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I haven't been following the issue too closely, but my BS detector went off the scale when Julie Bishop pronounced the Russians guilty.

 

 

[Marty_d]

My BS detector goes off whenever a politician opens their mouth.

 

 

[facthunter]

Truth goes out the window when things get politicised.. I'm sure Vlad nearly $#1ts himself when death stare Julie declares Russia guilty. What, do tell, is Australia going to do about it if HE just ignores us.? Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Truth goes out the window when things get politicised.. I'm sure Vlad nearly $#1ts himself when death stare Julie declares Russia guilty. What, do tell, is Australia going to do about it if HE just ignores us.? Nev

We could sent former PM Tony Abbott to "shirtfront" him.

 

 

[facthunter]

You mean the "shirt happens" person? Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yep, he's a budgie-smuggler stuffed full of shirt.

 

 

[willedoo]

We could sent former PM Tony Abbott to "shirtfront" him.

Ahh, yes, fond memories of the days when we had a strong leader.

 

Apologies for having posted these somewhere previously.

 

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... But hang on, is this evidence that Budgie really did shirtfront Vladimir Vladimirovich?

 

- reportedly a photo of Vlad on his way home from the G20.

 

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[nomadpete]

Uncharitable.

 

So uncharitable...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Strong leader? Sorry, I can't help reposting this gem:

 

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