Phil Perry Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 https://www.thesun.co.uk/ne... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 As I watched video of the fire, I was wondering why the outside of the building was burning as it was. Now I know. I suppose that the majority of the deaths within the building will be found to be as a result of the inhalation of toxic smoke. Polystyrene gives off lots of nasties as it burns, not to mention the thick carbon particle filled smoke. I first saw these panels being used on a British reality show called DIY SOS, where volunteers gathered to remodel family homes for people who were dealing with mobility issues through illness or accident. The panels were touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread for improving the external insulation of a house. I never knew that the panels would be applied to the exterior of tower buildings. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Topical. I've just purchased some big bags of polystyrene insulation to pour/blow into my wall cavities. This is the start of replacing insulation I put in thirty-odd years ago. Bulk insulation is a bit like human flesh- it sags over time and loses its effectiveness. I'm aware of the toxic fumes from burning XPS, but hopefully we'll be well out of the place before that becomes an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 These panels wouldn't be such a hazard used on your typical one or two-storey dwelling. Its when they clad a tower building that they get out of hand in a fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 As I watched video of the fire, I was wondering why the outside of the building was burning as it was. Now I know. I suppose that the majority of the deaths within the building will be found to be as a result of the inhalation of toxic smoke. Polystyrene gives off lots of nasties as it burns, not to mention the thick carbon particle filled smoke. I first saw these panels being used on a British reality show called DIY SOS, where volunteers gathered to remodel family homes for people who were dealing with mobility issues through illness or accident. The panels were touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread for improving the external insulation of a house. I never knew that the panels would be applied to the exterior of tower buildings. OME Apparently ( No actual link to the specific regulation ) the EU have passed this cladding as suitable for use to Improve the Environmental Impact of the tower blocks by insulating the building against heat loss and therefore lower their carbon footprint. The USA Fire safety regulations forbid it's use. There are ( an Unknown number so far ) many other tower blocks which have been thus cladded. Many doors will be closing and many files will be shredded soon to protect certain Ar$es as usual. . . . Warning. . .Incoming denials and cries of "Not my fault Guv". . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 These panels wouldn't be such a hazard used on your typical one or two-storey dwelling. Its when they clad a tower building that they get out of hand in a fire. Anyone remember the three tall building fires in DUBAI not very long ago ? ? Guess what ? . . .same cladding. . . .what the heck happened to. . ."LESSONS WILL BE LEARNED" . . .yes they will,. . .and they Have,. . . but nobody will do / Has done. . . anything about it though. . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 The London Fire Service has been lambasted for not getting to the site fast enough ( SIX MINUTES WAS SLOW ? ? ? ) and for NOT having the capabiliity to get their hoses even half way up that building. . .? The Hard Leftie Agitators were at it again in the news this morning. . eg, "If that block was full of RICH PEOPLE,. .. THEN THE ARMY WOULD HAVE RESCUED THEM ALL WITH HELICOPTERS" This is getting too hysterically political for my liking. . .Bloody Hell, even Her Maj. the Queen was heckled by loonies when she visited the site. . . And I've no doubt that they were bussed in from all over and not actual displaced residents. . . A group interviewed by the ABBC said they came from Cardiff FCS . . . I doubt if even the SAS train for an operational scenario like that, In the Dark too. . . . . I've no doubt at all that they would try, because they are insanely brave Lunatics. . .but Hereford is just too far away from Kensington / Notting HIll. . . . Still,. . .I guess that Steve McQueen and Paul Newman's rellies will get some mileage out of the surge in folks wanting to watch 'Towering Inferno' again, . . Plus those who never saw it in the first place. . . ( Good Movie in Sensurround IMO ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Latest reports say that the FB hve found the apartment where the fire originated. A much earlier report said that a Frdge had exploded, causing the fire. . . Other reports said that the guy who rang the fire service actully Packed a bag' before calling them and has now disappeared from the media radar. Other , Less kindly suggestions have been that someone was having an indoor barbecue on some sort of open fire,. . .this practice is quite prevalent in social housing throughout London, normally perpetrated by those of a North West African persuasion, who ignore 'Cookers' and make a fire pit in the middle of the loundgeroom floor and cook their bushmeat over that. I doubt if this last suggestion is true TBQH although it has been shown to occur in a lot of social housing for immigrants in other areas.. . well,. . .they're just NOT used to our customs, so why should we denigrate them ? Other possible causes include Bypassing the Gas meter to preclude payment . .doing same to the Electricity meter and if THIS is done, except by an 'Expert' it almost Always results in a fire.. This block although having SOME local people as residents, was mainly 'Socially Housed' immigrants, from all over the world. Some of whom would not be conversant with modern cooking techniques. In fact, the local Council have NO IDEA how many perople were crowded into the two bedroomed apartments. . .so it is going to be difficult to ascertain the exact number of casualties. . .the building has still not been forensically searched, and If the bodycount is higher that it 'SHOULD BE' . . . . then I have no doubt in my mind that we will never be told the truth, as this would count AGAINST the current non- 'Invasion' Narrative pushed by the Government and the ABBC.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 More 'scuttlebut' on Mystery 'Fridge Fire Man' who originally phoned the Fire Service. . . . - His family were away. - He packed his suitcases. - He notified the neighbours - Explaining that the fridge had caught fire or exploded, perhaps thinking they were interested in that. ( This reported by surviving neighbours ) - He notified the Fire Service. - He left the premises, leaving the door to his apartment open. - He disappeared, and hasn't been seen since? I guess all this will be a focus of the enquiry, and they will ensure he and his family are found and required to give testimony. If you're into conspiracies, this would point to more than possible arson. IF. . .you're into conspiracies of course. Probably Bollox, but this bloke's comments were reported from Day one on the media. . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 This is the sort of $hit that we deal with day to day in Britain. . . [ATTACH]48800._xfImport[/ATTACH] The twot on the left ( good place to stand ! ) is a bloke named 'Owen Jones'. . .an archetypal Hard Leftie who is against anything remotely decent or rational. . . . Of course,. . .the ABBC have him on 150% of their TV and Radio programmes. . .even though he has never stood for, nor been elected to, any political office in the UK. This is the way the ABBC want the UK to go. . . . . .an I shall fight it with any weapon that I can think of, not so to do would be to denigrate what my relatves died for in WW one and two. . . . These Cnuts are brainwashing our young people. And it will all end in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 The following article was written by my Friend Viv. . .who is a full time Journo who writes for several newspapers and magzines. . . ( NO, not ALL right wing rags either ! ) Grenfell: The Dianafication of Politics Remember Tony Blair? Of course you do! Remember the ‘death of the People’s Princess’? Of course you do - even thought this was 20 years ago now. Well - let’s make a list of what has happened since then: Stiff upper lip has gone, replaced by a veritable industry of grief. The mountain of flowers at Kensington palace was the start of a new attitude on grief, and it’s now world-wide, as we observe after every single mass murder by jihadis: flowers, teddy bears, tea lights … with the modern addition (there were no interwebz or social meejah 20 years ago) of hashtags and profile photos and everybody tweeting (even the atheists) #PrayforXXXXX . 1997 is the year it started - and it’s as if today’s generation needs to revive and relive that time of “grief”. There’s however another aspect to this Dianafication, and we can lay it squarely at the feet of His Tonyhood and Labour: their propaganda machine, aided and abetted even then by Al Beeb (which we still called ‘BBC’ with reverence), and that is the quick designation of a person on whom to pour out hatred and vilification by the ‘grieving’ masses. Actual facts don’t come into it. Twenty years ago it was the Queen. His Tonyhood, clever politician that he his, noted quickly that attacking the queen might play well in London and his Labour clientele, but wasn’t a good image for the rest of the country, so, after having kicked that off he quickly pedalled back and elevated himself to the ‘saviour of the monarchy’. Fast forward to this week and the Grenfell Inferno. Corbyn straightaway does a Tony and disports himself as the humane, grieving-with-the-victims saviour, aided and abetted by Momentum. This time though, on the back of the GE, the scapegoat on which to blame everything is the PM. This time round, all the meejah are in full Corby-the-saviour mode because they still cannot believe that May won on June 8th. They actively suppress news of what May does, such as going to the firefighters first thing that morning, or reporting bigly about her visiting victims in hospital. No - it’s about “Tory cutz”, and any Labour involvement is nicely disregarded if not actively brushed under the carpet. Apparently, there was no Labour Government since 1997 which actively implemented the ‘green’ EU policies, down to building regulations which massively contributed to that fire. There was no Labour government which enacted surreptitiously uncontrolled immigration from muslim countries, leading to the state London is in. Apparently, the muslim London Mayor is not to blame, nor are any muslim councillors. After all - the aim of Jezza and Momentum is ‘to get rid of May’, and anything is welcome. Friday evening’s “demo” shows that this is well organised: how many victims whose homes have been burned out can you think of whose priority is to demonstrate with lovely, professional-looking posters, screeching that Tories have blood on their hands? Well, they didn’t wuite do that for the People’s Princess, but would’ve, I’m sure, had His Tonyhood demanded it. That Dianafication of politics also means a Dianafication of the MSM. “Grief” must be the main theme, feelingz trump facts. Nobody in the MSM - given their resources - asks about overcowding of those flats. Nobody asks how come that an ‘exploding fridge’ (any evidence for that explosion?) should gut a whole towerblock? Of course they don’t - after all, given the faces of the occupants, that would lead to inconvenient, ahem, racist questions. Ramidamai night cooking cannot possibly be mentioned. And we must all accept that these were “The Poor ™” who can do no wrong - but never ask how come those poor live in flats advertised on the open market for £2000 rent per month … no, that would be offensive, that would be hate crime. Well, let’s watch this Dianafied Momentum Street Theatre of “Protests” unfold, let’s watch for how long they can keep this going. It should die down by next week, shouldn’t it - after all that’s about as long as the time accorded to the victims of Manchester and London Bridge - but somehow I doubt it. I predict that Jo Who’s hubby will use the donations he hopes to rake in today as another little earner by adding the ‘Grenfell victims’ to his grief portfolio. Meanwhile, we need to battle on, we need to reclaim our country, our history, our culture, our attitudes as a matter of urgency. Always point out the inane Dianafication of Labour and their state Propaganda Machine. Above all, ridicule all who promote “feelingz” over facts. Oh - and abolish the BBC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 - He packed his suitcases. Note all my quotes are from Agony of dad who first raised the alarm at Grenfell Tower "Behailu grabbed a bag of belongings before fleeing, believing the fire would be contained in his flat and dealt with by fire crews." There is a vast difference between packing multiple suitcases and grabbing a bag of belongings, it may not have been the smartest thing to do but multiple reports from airliner crashes suggest it is not unusual. - He notified the neighbours - Explaining that the fridge had caught fire or exploded, perhaps thinking they were interested in that. ( This reported by surviving neighbours ) "Dad-of-one Behailu was woken by a loud bang as a suspected electrical fault blew up the fridge-freezer in his fourth-floor flat. He raced out and banged on his neighbour’s door — potentially saving hundreds of lives" If a fire started in my apartment and I did not think I could put it out I would also bash on my neighbours doors, why is this suspicious? - He notified the Fire Service. umm yeah of course - He left the premises, leaving the door to his apartment open. I guess in this situation I would be weighing up whether to leave the door closed to contain the flames or open to allow quick identification and easy access to the fire. I would also imagine that most of us don't make perfect decisions during a crisis. Is the implication here is that he somehow wanted the fire to spread????? - He disappeared, and hasn't been seen since? “He talked about how terrible he feels about the people who lost their lives — some were his friends. “He will never get over it. He said there was nothing he could do and he went into shock when he saw the flames racing up the side of the building. “He still can’t believe the small fire in his kitchen caused such terrible destruction and killed so many people.” The fact that he has not made himself available to the media does not suggest that he has "disappeared" If a fire broke out in my apartment and killed others I would be devastated, I am not sure I would be out giving press conferences. The suggestion that he is disappeared is supposed to whip up suspicion. My question would be do the police consider this man is in hiding from the authorities? I guess all this will be a focus of the enquiry, and they will ensure he and his family are found and required to give testimony. Again, not missing? Just not appearing in public. Is there one piece of evidence to suggest that he is not available to the authorities? If you're into conspiracies, this would point to more than possible arson. Well I am not into conspiracy theory although with solid verifiable evidence I will believe anything. "More than possible arson" is trying to whip up theories of terrorism. All this conspiratorial rubbish is created from half truths and some outright lies in my view is not worthy of propergating without any solid evidence. Here is as fact (fact because there is evidence) " Residents expressed significant safety concerns prior to the fire, with criticism levelled against the council for fire safety and building maintenance failures. A massive power surge occurred in 2013" Grenfell Tower fire warnings 'fell on deaf ears', residents' group says Whilst not saying it outright but nonetheless these quotes on your post seem to be suggesting that this man may have deliberately caused the fire. Such a serious suggestion requires solid evidence before smearing someone. Can I ask you Phil if when the investigation is complete and if this man is exonerated will you feel any compassion for him, having to live with this tragedy and being subject to innuendo oh the most hideous kind? On the other hand if his role in the fire is evil then at least I can say that I did not cast aspersions on anyone before the ashes have even cooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Apparently ( No actual link to the specific regulation ) the EU have passed this cladding as suitable for use to Improve the Environmental Impact of the tower blocks by insulating the building against heat loss and therefore lower their carbon footprint. The USA Fire safety regulations forbid it's use. There are ( an Unknown number so far ) many other tower blocks which have been thus cladded. Many doors will be closing and many files will be shredded soon to protect certain Ar$es as usual. . . . Warning. . .Incoming denials and cries of "Not my fault Guv". . . . Cladding for Grenfell Tower was cheaper, more flammable option This article contains quite detailed information regard these panels. "German construction companies have been banned from using plastic-filled cladding, such as Reynobond PE, on towers more than 22 metres high since the 1980s when regulations were brought in to improve fire safety at residential blocks." "Frankfurt’s fire chief, Reinhard Ries, said he was appalled at the fire at Grenfell Tower and said tighter fire-safety rules for tower blocks in Germany meant that a similar incident could not happen there. US building codes also restrict the use of metal-composite panels without flame-retardant cores on buildings above 15 metres" These panels are not forbidden in the US but rather are restricted below 15 metres and in Germany to 22 metres so I am not sure what EU regulations you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 This is the sort of $hit that we deal with day to day in Britain. . . [ATTACH=full]2277[/ATTACH] The twot on the left ( good place to stand ! ) is a bloke named 'Owen Jones'. . .an archetypal Hard Leftie who is against anything remotely decent or rational. . . . Really? According to Wikipedia he's always been a staunch critic of Donald Trump. That alone means he stands for decency and rationality. Some of his stances are unsupportable to the centrist person, but then again, so are a LOT of the stances of the hard right. This is the way the ABBC want the UK to go. . . . . .an I shall fight it with any weapon that I can think of, not so to do would be to denigrate what my relatves died for in WW one and two. . . . These Cnuts are brainwashing our young people. And it will all end in tears. I thought that the people who died in WWII did so in a fight against fascism - ie the hard right. If you want to really stretch the analogy it could be argued they fought to protect freedom of expression, not against it. Give young people a chance - apart from the feeble-minded, I don't think they're easily brainwashed. By either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 More 'scuttlebut' on Mystery 'Fridge Fire Man' who originally phoned the Fire Service. . . . - His family were away. - He packed his suitcases. - He notified the neighbours - Explaining that the fridge had caught fire or exploded, perhaps thinking they were interested in that. ( This reported by surviving neighbours ) - He notified the Fire Service. - He left the premises, leaving the door to his apartment open. - He disappeared, and hasn't been seen since? I guess all this will be a focus of the enquiry, and they will ensure he and his family are found and required to give testimony. If you're into conspiracies, this would point to more than possible arson. IF. . .you're into conspiracies of course. Probably Bollox, but this bloke's comments were reported from Day one on the media. . . . . More 'scuttlebut' on Mystery 'Fridge Fire Man' who originally phoned the Fire Service. . . . - His family were away. - He packed his suitcases. - He notified the neighbours - Explaining that the fridge had caught fire or exploded, perhaps thinking they were interested in that. ( This reported by surviving neighbours ) - He notified the Fire Service. - He left the premises, leaving the door to his apartment open. - He disappeared, and hasn't been seen since? I guess all this will be a focus of the enquiry, and they will ensure he and his family are found and required to give testimony. If you're into conspiracies, this would point to more than possible arson. IF. . .you're into conspiracies of course. Probably Bollox, but this bloke's comments were reported from Day one on the media. . . . . Grenfell Tower fire cause REVEALED: Hotpoint fridge freezer, insulation & cladding blamed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 More 'scuttlebut' on Mystery 'Fridge Fire Man' who originally phoned the Fire Service. . . . - His family were away. - He packed his suitcases. - He notified the neighbours - Explaining that the fridge had caught fire or exploded, perhaps thinking they were interested in that. ( This reported by surviving neighbours ) - He notified the Fire Service. - He left the premises, leaving the door to his apartment open. - He disappeared, and hasn't been seen since? I guess all this will be a focus of the enquiry, and they will ensure he and his family are found and required to give testimony. If you're into conspiracies, this would point to more than possible arson. IF. . .you're into conspiracies of course. Probably Bollox, but this bloke's comments were reported from Day one on the media. . . . . "The fridge freezer the fire started in was a Hotpoint FF175BP model. Police say the manufacturers have been told, as well as the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Policy. Further tests were being done on the appliance, they said, and the fridge freezer had never been subject to a product recall." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I found an owner's manual for this appliance: http://imagebank.indesitcompany.co.uk/brochures_online/pdf/Hotpoint/Fridges/FF175BP_19505553801.pdf The last page has an amendment date of 10/2006, so I wonder how many owners the suspect appliance had before ending up in the tower. And I would bet that its prior maintenance and general care were not of a high standard. I hope that the Coroner finds that the cause of the fire was truly accidental, however the reasons for the devastation might be criminal. It would appear that there are certainly grounds for Civil action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 "The fridge freezer the fire started in was a Hotpoint FF175BP model. Police say the manufacturers have been told, as well as the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Policy. Further tests were being done on the appliance, they said, and the fridge freezer had never been subject to a product recall." It seems that this model of Fridge has had no other reported problems, but as Nev has pointed out; the actual CONDITION of the fridge in question cannot be known at this stage as the person occupying that apartment, who is said to have raised the alarm, has not yet been named / located to answer any queries. I must apologise for a clumsy posting by the way, the Underlined sentence was underlined by me, as I thought it was a really weird, strange thing to say given the circumstances. That 'Report' if you could call it that, was made by a person who has not been named either, amongst loads of wildly speculative comments made whilst the buidling was still smouldering. There was a tsunami of 'Social Media' commenting / reporting going on during the fire, along with some knobheads insisting that it was 'Arson' without a shred of evidence to support this theory. Media reporters were falling over themselves to get sound bites by grabbing and interviewing all and any person they could find for ideas and commments, whilst the building was still burning. I watched the story unfolding through the night until I fell off my chair at around 5.30 am. . . The story has altered slightly now, with a certain amount of 'Empty Stable Bolting' going on apace. Similarly clad buildings are being evacuated, where there seemed no particular interest in tenants' past complaints, fears and reservations by ANY of the responsible agencies. Much political 'Bottom Protecting' would appear to be going on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 It seems that this model of Fridge has had no other reported problems, but as Nev has pointed out; the actual CONDITION of the fridge in question cannot be known at this stage as the person occupying that apartment, who is said to have raised the alarm, has not yet been named / located to answer any queries. I thought the fridge owners identity was known Agony of dad who first raised the alarm at Grenfell Tower Press Coverage Of Grenfell Tower Fire Man With Faulty Fridge Triggers 1650 Complaints | HuffPost UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 I thought the fridge owners identity was knownAgony of dad who first raised the alarm at Grenfell Tower Press Coverage Of Grenfell Tower Fire Man With Faulty Fridge Triggers 1650 Complaints | HuffPost UK Thanks,. . I hadn't seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 Here is the opposite opinion to the lefty HuffPo report Octave. . . from a 'Right WIng' site. I would like to enter the caveat that I believe this report to be a load of shyte, written by a rabid fanatic, offering no plausible evidence for his / her claims. . . or a rabid 'Journalist' who does not have a basic understanding of spelling the English language. It shows the level of hate bubbling away in this country at the present time. The guy was an Ethiopian 'Muslim' taxi driver, so,. . . he MUST have had a Bomb Factory. . . .give me a bloody break FCS !. . . . This is what I was referring to when I said that I was 'Watching' social media through the development of the event. . . this is one of the least crazy ones. rightnewsuk.com/ok-lets-discuss-the-grenfell-fire-and-msm-wont-question-the-cause-or-the-disappearance-of-muslim-mr-behailu-kebede-the-tennant-of-the-flat … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Here is the opposite opinion to the lefty HuffPo report Octave. . . from a 'Right WIng' site. I would like to enter the caveat that I believe this report to be a load of shyte, written by a rabid fanatic, offering no plausible evidence for his / her claims. . . or a rabid 'Journalist' who does not have a basic understanding of spelling the English language. It shows the level of hate bubbling away in this country at the present time. [/url]The guy was an Ethiopian 'Muslim' taxi driver, so,. . . he MUST have had a Bomb Factory. . . .give me a bloody break FCS !. . . . This is what I was referring to when I said that I was 'Watching' social media through the development of the event. . . this is one of the least crazy ones. rightnewsuk.com/ok-lets-discuss-the-grenfell-fire-and-msm-wont-question-the-cause-or-the-disappearance-of-muslim-mr-behailu-kebede-the-tennant-of-the-flat … What I have trouble understanding is why people are satisfied with relying on dodgy evidence. Whilst this fire was still burning I saw a post (not here) that said ISIS had claimed responsibility, this was clearly not true but I suppose they felt it supported their beliefs. To me, making things up or exaggerating to support one's beliefs is intellectually weak and in the long run counterproductive. What I would like to know is the motivation of the writer of the article. Surely they know that there is no evidence to support their assertions, even if a few people without the analytical skills may believe and propagate it winning an argument on a lie would not be satisfying to me. Let's be clear this happens throughout the political spectrum. We seem to be in an age where verifiable facts are not considered important, don't like a fact, just call it fake news. It is true that everyone is entitled to their own opinion they are not entitled to their own facts. An opinion without evidence is little more than superstition. What can be asserted without evidence can equally be dismissed without evidence. Societies progress when they learn from past mistakes. When an airliner crashes we need to know the all of the facts in order to prevent future accidents. No one on any side of politics could fail to be horrified by the fire and would not want it to happen again. It is crucial to analyse what actually happened. As with a plane crash there most likely will be a chain of events, the blame will no doubt fall on more than one person. Thanks to analysing facts and accepting what is actually true rather than what people would like to be true I am able to sit here using my 20 years of extra life conversing with someone on the other side of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 In the days of journalism, society could generally rely on the training and ethics of journalists to present the truth. We no longer have journalists, so we rely on every self-appointed internet reporter, which means fake news is much more likely than the truth. It has the potential to destroy our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 In the days of journalism, society could generally rely on the training and ethics of journalists to present the truth. We no longer have journalists, so we rely on every self-appointed internet reporter, which means fake news is much more likely than the truth. It has the potential to destroy our society. I think the problem is that there is a tendency to believe an article that doesn't support your beliefs must be fake news. I think the best one can do is to check as many sources as possible. It seems to me the average person is becoming radicalised or at least polarised. If I say I am not worried about living across the road from a mosque (which I do) then I must be a terrorist sympathiser or if I accept climate science then I must be a lefty libtard. Both sides of the Brexit debate claim extreme consequences if Britain Leaves/Remains If anyone wants to convince me of anything then they need to present a factual argument with facts that I can check for myself. This clip sums up my point of view about the pitiful state of public debate at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 One Thousand fire doors missing from a single high rise building in the Camden local authority area. Now, there are social media reports about this, suggesting that the doors were all stolen by the tenants. I'd rather lean towards the story about 'Specifications Not being met' . . ( Backhanders and brown envelopes stuffed with cash is a lot more likely ). . .when a building was first erected, and that there was insufficient oversight, ( Or complicity in fraud ) by those responsible for signing off the building as safe for habitation. Social Housing n the London area has, for many years contained immigrants from all parts of the world, many of them described as 'Third World' . . .but I cannot seriously accept that 1,000 heavy duty fire doors have been removed by the tenants or other unauthorised persons for 'Other' purposes. . . The Daily express Article linked to hereunder does not discuss this aspect of the typically 'Clickbait' style headline. . . . It is certainly a worry, if the management companies, seconded by local authorities to maintain these social housing blocks do not carry out satisfactory safety inspections on a sensibly regular basis, at least twice annually, as a retired professional firefighter friend of mine tells me, this used to be the norm when he was working with the Walsall area authority. . . .Fire safety inspections were ordered twice annually, and their recommendations were followed and modifications / repairs carried out, then inspected again for complicity. This was fifteen years ago, so what has happpened to this 'Qualified Inspection' regime in the interim is anyone's guess. And, this has NOTHING to do with the 'dangerously flammable cladding' story either. More an adjunct. http://www.express.co.uk/ne.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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