There's gunna be a windfarm in my neighbourhood

[old man emu]

We had our local show  this weekend. I got the chance to speak to representatives of the mob which is in the process of gaining approval for an eighty-tower windfarm within 20 kms of my place.

 

Eighty towers seems  like a big crowd, but when I was shown to proposed location of each tower, I saw that they were separated from each other by close on a kilometre. My first thought when I heard of the proposal was that teh towers would be visible from the Newell Highway which is located to the east of the proposed area. I learned that the closest tower woulod be about 5 kms from the highway, with a line of low "hills" between them. So that's no longer a concern to me.

 

I think I've whinged before that around here it can be pretty windy, nd said that it would be ideal for a wind farm. Seems I'm right in some ways and mistaken in others. I experience wind as air movement within about 10 metres of the ground surface. That air movement is very turbulent compared to air movement 100 metres above ground where the turbine blades are. That turbulence, caused by the moving air particles colliding withthe ground and trees and ricocheting into air particles higher up. These collisions rob the air particles of energy due to loss of momentum. If the air movement is free of the turbulence, then there is more energy for the collision between the moving air and the turbine blades. That's why the towers are so high.

 

I was also told that studies locally have shown that the most consistent air movement begins at these heights after sunset and stay pretty good until just before dawn. That means the turbines are best able to produce electricity at night in complement to solar panels. That sounds good.

 

What about the effects on farm incomes? The builders don't resume the land they need like the government does when it wants to build roads etc. It seems that the land is rented from the landholders at a rate determined by the generating capacity of the turbine. An example was that of a property with two towers on it. Based on the generating capacity of the intended turbines, renting the land for two towers would return $100,000 p.a. CPI-indexed for a contract period of thirty years. That's got to provide a degree of stabilisation of farm income. I bet any landowner would love to get that sort of money, especially in the present circumstance when it looks like a drought is on the way.

 

Why does it take so long to get a windfarm up an running. Would you beleive that it is in part due to the very people who pursue a renewable world? One of the environmental reports required deals with the effect of the turbines on bats and birds. Getting the data required a study lasting two years. Then there are the Native Heritage studies and gaining clearances from the local indigenous community. Then there are the geo-technical studies, planning permissions yadda yadda. 

 

We should consider the economic benefits. It is said that the workforce required to create the windfarm complex is about 500 persons. These people will be newcomers who will have to be fed, housed and entertained for several years. Already the local Council has allocated an area for an accommodation camp. Someone has to build it. An extra 500 people will hopefully boost local trade, although the proximity of the City of Dubbo, about 30 minutes' drive away might not do good for my town. Still, it's money coming into the district.

 

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with this project. Really, it is going to be 'out of sight, out of mind' to teh majority of the population. And kn owing what I know about smart crows and blind bats, I don't envisage too many mid-air collsions with revolving turbine blades.

[old man emu]

Here's a link to the project's website: https://milpullingwindfarm.com/

[randomx]

Earlier in l didn't mind wind farms. But through Vic now, west side anyway, they're all over the place and still popping up.

lt's not a practical solution bc 1, sounds like they'll need a lot more than this to make much of a dent at all but there's already too many.

2nd thing l've read, is that the props blades only have a 10-15yr life, then what do you do with those. The US already has 1000s of acs of old props stacked up, saw pics.

Far as l know there's not really anything they can be recycled into .

[old man emu]

33 minutes ago, randomx said:

Far as l know there's not really anything they can be recycled into

Like all new things, if they create a problem, eventually a solution will be found. I heard that solar panels are hard to do anything with, but how long have we have lots of them? I bet people are working feverously to develop ways to get something useful from the junk. I have faith in the fact that someone eventually finds a way to utilise the smell of a turd.

[Marty_d]

Recycling the blades is a challenge.

Cement co-processing seems to be the best option currently.

 

There'd have to be some innovative reuses of them - there was a story in ABC recently of someone making surfboards out of them.  I'd have thought they could be incorporated into fences, walls, roofs etc. 

 

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-5309/15/14/2414

Edited April 27 by Marty_d

[randomx]

 

Yeah right, be great if they could find some way of doing something with them.

[nomadpete]

10 hours ago, Marty_d said:

There'd have to be some innovative reuses of them - there was a story

Like all 'end of use' engineering stories.......

 

I'm still waiting to hear all about the grand innovative car tyre recycling plan.

 

or the grand plastics recycling plan.........

 

or the innovative nuclear waste recycling plan.

 

We hoomin beans are not very innovative when we finish playing with our toys.

 

 

 

Edited April 27 by nomadpete

[Marty_d]

They're pretty big objects. From 40 - 100m long, built to be not only self supporting but to rotate, with weather proof coating - sounds ideal as roofing/cladding.

Maybe sheds and hangars?

[onetrack]

The construction of a wind turbine blade is extremely complex, and no doubt very costly. They don't lend themselves to re-usability very readily. Fibreglass is their major constituent. It seem to be the height of stupidity to just bury them.

 

 

[old man emu]

Maybe we don't need wind turbine generators. It seems that domestic solar is doing the job. For those who championed Nett Zero for electricity generation, Australians have come on board this year. Going solar is great if you own your own a traditional home, but leaves those living in multi-storey residential blocks and renters out of the game. I suppose the landlord of a rented house could instal solar and up the rent. 

 

 

[facthunter]

Have you just discovered YouTube?  Anyone can Put Anything there..  It's never ending. No one is out of the Game. Everyone benefits and local communities or a Private Venture can do their Own thing to Help use electricity Better for the benefit of all.. Nev

[octave]

48 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Going solar is great if you own your own a traditional home, but leaves those living in multi-storey residential blocks and renters out of the game.

As I posted earlier balcony solar is coming. There are also schemes where residents can buy into an off-site solar facility.  I also imagine that in the near future apartment buildings will be built with rooftop solar

[octave]

Here is one of several options for apartment dweller's 

 

Community Solar Programs

If rooftop solar isn’t an option, residents can buy into a community solar project, where an external solar farm generates energy for subscribers. This works well when:

• The building can’t support solar panels.
• Residents want solar benefits without dealing with strata approvals.

[old man emu]

I'm have got to stop starting posts with headline-like sentences. They are always misinterpreted.

 

What I was trying to say was that it was a good thing that domestic solar installations were being done at a great rate and that the battery subsidy was a big help. It was my belief that the inability to store excess electricity was holding back the adoption of solar. That disability now seems to have been overcome That's good. 

 

An aside: I was nearly going to write that solar installation rates were going through the roof, but I didn't want to pun.

[facthunter]

I recall when Prophets were going through the roof with IED's but it was a short lived, dying Habit.  Now Watch Carefully. I'm only going to show you this  ONCE. Nev

Edited May 10 by facthunter

[facthunter]

They should be called WEE's Wind Energy Extractors, NOT Windfarms. . They don't need water or grow winds.  NATURAL GAS is a Misnomer too. Why is it NOT Natural COAL or Natural OIL? That would be CRUDE would it not? Nev

[Siso]

natural gas comes out the ground as is, LPG is seperated at a refinery.

[facthunter]

Well, I'll Be Fracked. According to Gina, Iron Ore is ONLY dirt before WE dig it up , too.  The (L) means Liquified. ie Under Pressure.  Oil and coal come out of the ground too. and you can get Cas from Coal ( Leaving charcoal.)   You can Make diesel from Brown Coal too, but it's a very Polluting Process. Nev

[Siso]

LPG has to have a process. natural gas is pretty well ready to use

[facthunter]

Different Base . Methane CH4 v/s Paraffinic. CN H2N+2. There's a lot of debate about the use of the term "Natural". Worth a look when you have the time. ALL Liquification Needs Pressure.(OR cooling).Nev 

[old man emu]

I know now why they are building a windfarm in my local area. For the past few days the wind has been blowing continuously, and strongly. I'm doing my laundry this morning and am not looking forward to the effort involved in hanging it out. Talk about a one armed paperhanger in a windstorm!

[onetrack]

We had a week of very strong and chilly winds last week, although the days were sunny. The high pressure systems travelling West to East across the Southern Ocean are still very big and very strong, making for extended periods of strong winds. It's unusual for this time of year, but the weather is following a similar pattern to last year. Big strong high pressure systems blocking cold fronts from coming in at higher latitudes.

 

We had a very dry Autumn last year, and didn't get a "season break" until the start of the last week of May. But when it did rain, in came in adequate amounts and the right spacings, which all provided another excellent cropping season.

 

OME, the 4 day forecast map is indicating you could get some rain by Sunday or Monday.

 

Edited May 13 by onetrack

[old man emu]

43 minutes ago, onetrack said:

you could get some rain by Sunday or Monday.

Which Sunday or Monday are those?

[facthunter]

I can comfortably predict you won't get rain from Now till Xmas.. Nev

[onetrack]

Nev's confidence about coming weather events is not something I can say I have the same confidence in.

 

10 day Forecast - Gilgandra:

 

https://weather.com/en-TT/weather/tenday/l/Gilgandra+New+South+Wales+2827+Australia?canonicalCityId=36affdfba0f3fd7d6d0e3cdcf2f1d26b