Rat Bike Project

[facthunter]

There's a few Bikes Made with Rotec Radials in them. I gave a Good Lycoming Cylinder to Peter Franks at Lethbridge. Nev

[nomadpete]

1 minute ago, willedoo said:

You're right there Nev, that one above with the Wright cylinder is a custom chopper in my view. It's that shiny, you'd need sunglasses to look t it..

I just love the concept.

 

Can you imaging kick starting that?

 

Would it sound like the one lungers at the vintage stationary engine fair?

[willedoo]

I get the impression the engine runs but is not practical to ride around on. I think he just takes it to shows and starts it up. I don't think it has a balance shaft. He shortened the stroke from 5.5 inches down to 5 inches and used a shorter Continental piston. He had to cut the bottom skirt off the cylinder so it would clear the crank lobes. The one that was built (in Norway I think) using a single pot from a radial was around 2000cc and he could ride it down the road ok.

 

 

[willedoo]

The original Wright piston was a long piston and needed that section of bore that protudes into the original radial crankcase, and that setup would have needed a much taller custom crankcase making the engine too tall, so that's why he  trimmed the bore and shortened the stroke with the Continental O-470 piston.

[willedoo]

I found a video on the 2 litre thumper. It wasn't in Norway, it was a German, Fritz Langer, who built it.

 

 

 

[onetrack]

Willie, I asked Mr Google about the aircraft rivet hardening, and this answer I got, appears to be reasonably accurate. The information relates specifically to solid rivets, which I presume is what you're talking about. It jells with what I know about metals treatment.

 

"Yes, certain old aluminium aircraft rivets can go hard and become difficult or unusable, due to a natural process called age-hardening, but whether they are truly "useless" depends on the alloy and storage conditions. While they get stronger over time, they also become less formable, which can cause them to crack during installation. 

Here is a breakdown of how old rivets behave:

1. The Common "AD" Rivet (Dimpled):

The most common structural rivet (AN470AD or AN426AD, identified by a single dimple on the head) is made of 2117-T4 alloy. 

 

Aging Behavior: These are designed to be stable. While they may slightly harden over decades, they generally do not "go bad" and are considered usable indefinitely.

Issues: In some cases, 20–30 year old AD rivets might feel harder to squeeze, but they are rarely useless. 

 

2. The "Icebox" Rivet (DD)

The rivets that truly go "hard and useless" with age are the 2024-T3 or 2017-T4 aluminum alloy rivets, often known as "DD" rivets (identified by two dashes on the head). 

 

Aging Behavior: These rivets are heat-treated to a soft, ductile state, but they begin to age-harden at room temperature within 40 minutes to a few hours.

 

Storage: They must be stored in a freezer (hence "icebox") to prevent hardening. If left at room temperature for years, they become extremely hard and will crack if you try to buck them.

 

Remedy: They can be re-solution heat-treated (annealed) to restore their softness, but this requires precise temperature control. 

 

Summary of Risks:

Hardness: Old rivets may crack, specifically in the tails (shop head), if you try to drive them.

Corrosion: If stored in a humid or corrosive environment, old aluminium rivets can develop corrosion, making them unsafe to use.

Work Hardening: Even if the rivet hasn't hardened with age, if you are using an old rivet and it requires too many strikes to set, it may "work-harden" and break.

Conclusion: If you are working with old rivets, test them first. If they are standard AD (dimpled) rivets, they are likely fine. If they are DD (double-dash) rivets, they are likely too hard and need to be annealed or replaced."

[willedoo]

Thanks for that info onetrack. I've got a heap of them all mixed up so I'll sort them out. With a bit of luck there will be a reasonable amount of the 2117 rivets.

[willedoo]

 

[Siso]

A couple more

https://www.backstreetheroes.com/2023/07/14/project-hercules-2-75l-single-brag-your-bike/ and

 

 

[nomadpete]

I guess the old motors had bigger pistons, longer stroke, and low compression.

The T model ford was 4 litre - one litre per cylinder, and it was hand crank started (originally).

[onetrack]

Yeah, but the compression ratio of the Model T Ford was around 4.00:1 when it was new! - imagine how soon that dropped to 3.5:1 with the materials used back then, and the lack of filtering!

 

An old farmer client (long deceased, he died in 1994), cut a Model T engine in half and used it to power a grinder in his workshop. What is even more remarkable, he found the crank throws needed to be realigned, so he cut the crank in half again, and re-aligned the crank throws to a flat plane! This was all done with the most basic farm workshop tools.

 

The cut-in-half engine ran just fine, and powered his grinder for years and years.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by onetrack

[willedoo]

57 minutes ago, Siso said:

A couple more

https://www.backstreetheroes.com/2023/07/14/project-hercules-2-75l-single-brag-your-bike/ and

That Flying Millyard is quite amazing. He even made his own carburettors.

[facthunter]

Look UP " The FLYING MERKEL" . I once had a 1912 Model,. Sprung rear wheel.  Ball race Big end.  USA BUILT, The AMERICANS made the Most Innovative Bikes back then Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sorry.. couldn't resist. A later model flying Merkel: 

 

(Ignore the message)

Edited 15 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

They went broke when they couldn't get the German Made bearings.  Nev

[willedoo]

Just a project update, bearing in mind the whole harebrained idea is only a week old. At this stage, until a decision on the engine is made (do I put the V6 in it or source a more sensible motorcycle engine) there's no point doing any frame, tank, front end or side panel work. The rear wheel and sidecar wheels can be worked on, hub, brake, bearings, axle etc., and some initial sidecar chassis setout.

 

This week I might see if I can set up a dedicated shelf area in the shed for components or component contenders. It would help to have it all in one place and readily visible. I'd like to avoid new hardware bits and pieces as much as possible and use mainly components that have some history and a bit of a story behind them. For instance, I've still got my Norton number plate from the early 70's, and a couple of days ago found two small spotlights from my old HJ Holden ute I had in the early 80's. Instead of things going straight to the pool room, they can go straight on the ratbike. As far as nuts, bolts, washers, piping, electrical harness and other small, odd fittings, I have stacks of scrap bin aviation stuff from various aircraft. That could be an initial job - sorting all that stuff into categories. With enough aircraft bits, maybe it could be classified as a rat bikeoplane.

[facthunter]

Options VW Beetle engine. Honda Goldwing 6 cyl, Toyota Yaris they used to go cheap as there was little call FOR THEM. Nev

[willedoo]

Yes, the Goldwing motors would be ideal. A lot of car motors are too tall for having a traditional bike tank on top. This one looks like a GL1000 Goldwing motor.

 

 

[onetrack]

I've got a 1938 Cadillac V8, 346 cu in engine to restore. It's side valve, but has hydraulic valve lifters! - and it produces a whopping 135BHP!

I saved it from the scrapman - it was one of two, that powered standby 40Hz generators in the Metro Theatre in Perth (which opened in Sept 1938).

The Metro was demolished with little care in 1973, and they dropped roof beams on the generators, and smashed them up, breaking carbies and distributors and other parts.

 

But I managed to acquire most of the damaged parts over the years from eBay, from sellers in the U.S. Now all I have to do is rebuild it.

It's a massive donk, it weighs over 500lbs (227kgs), and I don't really know what to put it in. T

It's reported that they run smooth as silk, and this engine was fitted to a number of WW2 tanks, and noted for its smoothness and quietness. They drove GM Hydramatic trannies in the tanks.

 

[willedoo]

That's a treasure; it would be great to hear it running one day.  Beautiful sounding engines, the flathead V8s. Not that efficient of a design but the sidevalve setup gives them that nice unique sound.

Edited 13 hours ago by willedoo

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

I've got a 1938 Cadillac V8, 346 cu in engine to restore. It's side valve, but has hydraulic valve lifters! - and it produces a whopping 135BHP!

I saved it from the scrapman - it was one of two, that powered standby 40Hz generators in the Metro Theatre in Perth (which opened in Sept 1938).

The Metro was demolished with little care in 1973, and they dropped roof beams on the generators, and smashed them up, breaking carbies and distributors and other parts.

 

But I managed to acquire most of the damaged parts over the years from eBay, from sellers in the U.S. Now all I have to do is rebuild it.

It's a massive donk, it weighs over 500lbs (227kgs), and I don't really know what to put it in. T

It's reported that they run smooth as silk, and this engine was fitted to a number of WW2 tanks, and noted for its smoothness and quietness. They drove GM Hydramatic trannies in the tanks.

 

That's going to be a heavy bike, OT!

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, Marty_d said:

That's going to be a heavy bike, OT!

That's ok. He plans to put a training wheel on one side.

[facthunter]

Flathead doesn't suit V8. Make it a static exhibit.  Nev