Electric car thread

[Jerry_Atrick]

Interesting: https://www.theage.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/the-shift-is-now-absolute-china-s-byd-says-australia-just-passed-its-ev-tipping-point-20260905-p60urd.html

 

[old man emu]

Quote from Jerry's source:

Toyota remained Australians’ most popular car brand in August. In second place was BYD, up 68 per cent to 8231, followed by Tesla, up 160 per cent to 7685.

 

Quoting the raw numbers creates a distorted picture of who is buying EVs. Toyota's sales are heavily impacted by the purchase of work vehicles by the various branches of government and also mining and agricultural businesses. One might say that a great many of those sales are accomapanied by an ABN, and tax deductions. BYD's sales market is the private buyer, as is that of other EV sellers. From the above article, it seems that the private buyer is in fact going EV. 

[kgwilson]

Toyota has been banking on its Solid State battery technology that it has been developing for a number of years but there have been constant delays & 2027-28 is the current launch date. Meanwhile they have teamed up with arch rival BYD to use their tech in Toyotas.

 

Toyotas main effort in the BZ4X aka Subaru Solterra has met with poor sales due to a number of factors including price & range. Japanese manufacturers should have cleaned up the market with Nissan Leaf being one of the first EVs & Toyota the biggest & longest standing Hybrid manufacturer, but they were caught & overtaken & largely pushed aside by the Chinese. Chinas electrification plan began back in 2001 & no-one took any notice & the legacy automotive market has been blind sided & left in the dust. 

[old man emu]

If sodium batteries beome the standard, what are shares in nickel and cadmium mining companies worth?

[facthunter]

Plenty of other used for Nickel. Nev

[Siso]

Yep, pipe work for nuclear power stations.

[facthunter]

I doubt that would require much of it. Alloying with steel is common for strength and corrosion resistance. Nev 

Edited yesterday at 02:52 AM by facthunter
typo

[Siso]

I tend to disagree. NPPs use a lot of stainless steel and the newer technology will probably be using Hastelloy to handle the heat. It is also used in the pressure vessels as well. If I was designing a 100 year plant, I would be using it for a lot of the general fittings around the plant as well.

[facthunter]

I don't think you have agreed with anything I've said, so it's just More of the same to me. Nev

[Siso]

right back at ya, google it! Common knowledge for anyone that has looked into a bit.

[facthunter]

A few more sources of facts to back your argument would assist instead of Just Laughing. Any thinking person KNOWs you can find what you want to find, these days. When I  look I trust More what the Market will Pay as a better indicator than most other self serving Propaganda that Pervades the Media. . Nev

[Siso]

Maybe you should accept that other people may know stuff you don't. Heaven forbid.

[facthunter]

Your insult wasn't really called for. I wasn't disputing SOME nickel is used in Nuclear reactors. It also has plenty of other uses was my point. Nev

[old man emu]

57 minutes ago, Siso said:

Heaven forbid.

 

37 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I wasn't disputing

And this bickering is advancing the discussion related to EVs?

[facthunter]

Well I'm the top poster on this topic by a Mile so don't blame me. 

[facthunter]

I cannot find any reference that shows NP to be the Major user of Nickel or projected to be. . Indonesia seems to be the Biggest producer. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Nickel is used in the production of stainless steel - so theoretically, it is stainless steel that has the lion's share of usage of nickel. Stainless steel is used in all sorts of products - including components of a nuclear plant - particularly - well most of the critical components of the plant really - and of course, beyond the critical components. 

 

The stainless steel has to be high grade from a durability and longevity basis - I have no idea of the Nickel volume but around 10% seems to be in my memory for some reason. 

 

So, a lot of a nuclear plant is stainless steel - in that sense nickel is a significant component (not the most - but a "major") of a nuclear plant based on the use of stainless steel. Is the nuclear power generation industry a major consumer of nickel worldwide? That depends on how you look at it. On a pure volume basis, no. That would probably go to manufacture of consumer and industrial goods. But on a relative to scale basis - yes it is a major consumer.. not the biggest I would guess - when the plants are being built. 

 

If the world decided to do a new build program of, I dunno, 50 nuclear power stations, the projected demand of nickel for stainless steel production would increase the futures price of nickel.  I am not going to do the modelling, but it would have significant future demand to immediately impact the futures prices - especially longer dated futures contracts if the announcement was made today.  As the demand picks up during the builds, the spot price will increase. 

 

But once built, they consume surprisingly little in the maintenance/operate cycle of the plant - because most of it is high grade and lasts.. So, unlike consumer/industrial goods manufacture which more or less has an ongoing constant demand, nuclear power stations - once built (or past a stage in their building) - are not huge consumers of the stuff. 

 

It all depends on the context in which people mean "major" user, etc. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

Current and /or projected in the future, information doesn't show NP to be a MAJOR user of nickel in the TOTAL MARKET, full stop.. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

As I said, it depends on the context of the use of the word major.. In the purely written form, we only have the words (and the very occasional emoji) to go with. We don#t have inflection nor body language, which usually make up the lion's share of communicating meaning and nuance. 

 

Here are the quotes:

On 07/09/2026 at 3:44 AM, facthunter said:

Plenty of other used for Nickel. Nev

and then 

On 07/09/2026 at 4:58 AM, Siso said:

Yep, pipe work for nuclear power stations.

and then 

On 08/09/2026 at 3:48 AM, facthunter said:

I doubt that would require much of it. Alloying with steel is common for strength and corrosion resistance. Nev 

 

and then

On 08/09/2026 at 4:06 AM, Siso said:

I tend to disagree. NPPs use a lot of stainless steel and the newer technology will probably be using Hastelloy to handle the heat. It is also used in the pressure vessels as well. If I was designing a 100 year plant, I would be using it for a lot of the general fittings around the plant as well.

And i will stop there as the rest adds little value. 

 

The very top quote appears (in my perception) in the context of OME's comments which were implying (again, as it is pure written, my perception) that the global demand for nickel will drop and the mining companies value will therefore drop. The way I read the top quote of this post is nickel has other uses... and readers of that could imply all manner of other implications - that those uses can possibly pick up the slack and not impact the valuations of mining companies (which is how I read it). Or, readers may have taken it as it is written - simply there is other uses for nickel, which appears how SISO has taken it, as his post is yeah - in nuclear power plants. But, if someone else's context remained at the global consumption level, then while SISO's statement is not factually incorrect, within the context of global consumption, it is currently minimal. This is where the disconnect seems to start. 

 

The next post to me clearly read doubting NPPs used much nickel at all.. That is how I read it.. so now, my context shifted the conversation from global demand to it's use in an NPP. Others may have perceived it differently. And, due to to use of stainless steel, it is at least currently used extensively in NPPs..  And on a scaled basis disproportionately so. (well, except for stainless steel pots and pans I guess). 

 

We all seem to get caught up in these perceived context shifts and it is probably a function of only having the written word in front of us. I know i have often bashed out a response based on my perception and on re-reading posts can see how the context it was meant may not be the context in which I perceived it to be. 

 

So, this:

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Current and /or projected in the future, information doesn't show NP to be a MAJOR user of nickel in the TOTAL MARKET, full stop.. Nev

I cannot disagree with.. it is back to the context of global demand and current projections. I think it would be a brave person or a Putin wannabe that would challenge that. 

 

Maybe we all can improve things by rather than doggedly standing our ground, reiterating in our post the background from which our comments are made. I don't believe we are here to fight or prove we know better than the other member - we are here to share ideas, debate positions, and learn from each other.  And hopefully enjoy each others company. 

 

To be clear - this is not aimed at anyone specifically... We all can do better. 

 

 

Edited 12 minutes ago by Jerry_Atrick