Is our 2 party system just a con?

[Marty_d]

8 hours ago, willedoo said:

I beg to differ Marty, I would say I'm bang on the point. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. I'd consider myself centre right politically and you support a far left party so we're never going get an echo chamber thing happening here.

Actually I support centre left.

[old man emu]

Actually, the swing to One Nation is probbly the best thing that could happen to the traditional governing Parties. They only have to ask Why?, and do a bit of soul-searching. Why is the electorate doing this? Why have we lost their support? Answering those questions should lead to a reassessment of their platforms and with reformed platforms they can hope to win back lost support. We would end up with our traditional parliamentary system - Labor -v- Conservatives.

[nomadpete]

53 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Actually, the swing to One Nation is probbly the best thing that could happen to the traditional governing Parties.

Agree, except..... it's ok as long as the wake-up call actually wakes up the slumbering major party policy makers.

 

In the USA extreme, twice now, the rebel voters created a One Party situation which permitted a political leadership disaster. Now they are stuck with a shadow of an opposition party that is unable to provide any balance to the excesses of the incumbents.

 

 

We seem to agree that our two major parties need to get back in touch with the electorate, and prioitise the masses.

 

But I fear our two parties are both too conservative to move forward.

[facthunter]

Trump won't survive the Mid terms without Illegal Interference in the voting. They are running $#!t Scared Pete, Where is this FAR Left Party you speak of  Here that Marty supports?  Nev

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

$#!t Scared Pete, Where is this FAR Left Party you speak of  Here that Marty supports?  Nev

Where did that idea come from? 

Australia hasn't seen even mildly Left Parties since the Australian Communist Party faded out.

[facthunter]

About 6 posts back. Your words. . Nev

[nomadpete]

No, I don't see any FAR left party in Australia.

[facthunter]

Nor do I. There isn't one.  Nev

[Marty_d]

It was Willie that said far left, not Peter.

[facthunter]

Sorry I'm as sick as a dog with Flu I caught on JetStar coming back from Newcastle.  A person Behind me was constantly snotting and coughing and my wife has been in contact with Nurse onLine etc and taking my readings. We have all the stuff to do the readings. . No men's shed tomorrow. I HAVE to get to a doctor. Nev

[Marty_d]

Hope you kick the flu soon Nev!

[facthunter]

Thanks Mate.  I hope I don't give it to anyone else.. Nev

[willedoo]

I was referring to the Greens. The Greens don't consider themselves far left but a lot of the rest of the country does. Labor faithful probably don't. Most people right of centre do.

[facthunter]

Labor has positioned itself in a Goldilocks Position, where the bulk of Australian's sit That only Leaves the super right  wing Nuts somewhere to go where No one should be in a world people would like to exist in.  Those of us who remember WW2, and the FINAL Solution, know what THAT is,.,. Nev 

[willedoo]

The last federal election I voted for an independent. It was a choice of probably the pick of a fairly poor selection of candidates in our electorate. She didn't seem too bad compared to some of the others, and I think she might have had some connection with the teals. Labor never does any good there and it's a very safe Liberal seat. A big influence in the Liberal vote there is the demographics of the electorate. Heaps of small business people and tons of self funded retirees, many of them interstate migrants. The Greens always get around 10%, similar to a lot of electorates.

 

The only time I can remember the seat not being Liberal was that brief period when Clive Palmer was our local federal member. From memory, I think he hardly ever showed up in parliament. A mate joined his party and went to a couple of meetings but left, like a lot of other people, once they realised what a dud Clive was. Just a lot of hot air.

[onetrack]

Clives party was always all about benefits to Clive, bugger anyone else. Just like Trump. Full of BS and self-importance, and self-interest.

[facthunter]

With the Greens it's Everything or NOTHING  Not Being even a bit Pragmatic and they are very Pro Palestine' I say that with No Pro or anti  comment. They frequently have Internal ructions over Non Green policies. They BAG Labor to get a bit of the Low hanging fruit which is Pretty Gutless Behaviour. as many Policies Overlap. They have suffered a great Loss Lately in seats Held for their Voter base. On a Lot of Political Forums to criticise them In any way Invites Great retribution, for some obscure reason. No one is Beyond criticism or  honest analysis. Nev

[Marty_d]

I wouldn't go quite that far but I do agree they often let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The prime example is when they knocked back Labor on the emissions trading scheme. We could have had a working ETS for almost 20 years now if they'd given a little ground.

[Litespeed]

If it wasnt for the Greens, we would have no environment ploicies other than chop it down and mine everything.

 

Yes they have allowed perfect be the enemy of good, but they do have our best interests at heart.

 

They are pro palestine because they believe all humans are equal.

 

[Marty_d]

Yep you beat me to it... I was about to add just that - they don't think billionaires should dictate policy, they do stick up for the environment and their hearts are definitely in the right place.

I don't think they could run the country, but they are a far better influence on whoever is in government than the crazies on the other end of the spectrum - the PHONeys, Clives, Nats and half (or more) of the Libs.

[facthunter]

I took care not to judge the Merits or otherwise of greens Policies. Effectiveness  is more what I was addressing.  They MISSED many opportunities they shouldn't Have and Australia is worse Off  as a result, Libs HATED Turnbull and undermined him constantly. T Abot was very Anti Climate action and HAS NO Science background at all  and iT shows  Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The Greens never knew about the tailings dam at Mary Kathleen Uranium until I told them.

 

That dam was on bare ground and was covered with a yellow foam, leaching into the ground and exposed to the atmosphere.

 

The Qld State govt minister told the Greens it was monitored. Nothing happened after that, that I know of. I felt disappointed the Greens didn't fight to get it cleaned up.

 

I walked in it as part of my job to fetch a pump, had gum boots on of course. The foreman stayed well back on the bank. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

9 hours ago, Litespeed said:

They are pro palestine because they believe all humans are equal.

I may be thick, but I genuinely don't get what you are saying. How does all humans being equal equate to being pro-Palestinian?

 

Believing they are unfairly treated by the Israelis is one thing (whether that is true or not - I can no longer be arsed getting into that argument), but being pro-Palestinian because all humans are equal sort of ignores the horrible inequities in Palestinian controlled areas (Gaza and Ramallah) - as well as other Arabic or Islamic nations - I dunno, like Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Iran, Afghaistan, many ogf the other 'Stans, and the like. Unless killing gays because they are gay, or beating your wife legally and even being instructed on how to do it, legal honour killings, discrtimination against far east labourers, slavery, etc is treating everyone equally. You know - like in Israel whihc has the largest - because the only gay pride; where foreign workers are treated the same as local, where Palestinian citrizes have the same rights and one was even the previous deputy PM, and there have been Palesitnian cheif jidges of the Israeli high court. Where women are eqqual and marital rape, wife beating, etc is against the law. Where even a soldier will be held to account for killing a Palestinian terrorst after they have injured aoir killed other Israeli soldiers. Where before 7 October, Israel provided necessary medical care to Gazans and Ramallans despite there being lots of hospitals in those two areas - some hopefully withoput weapons cahces under them. Where Israel provided Gazan with the water supply (and still do) despite Hamas firing rockets at them almost daily. Where many Gazans used to work in Israel with the same rights and conditions as Israelis and could move about freely (they were justifiably searched oin their way into Israel because of the risk of them wearing bombs). 

 

Hang on.. Where is their vocal opposition to Russia that does commit war crimes on a daily basis, targetting civilian infrastructure? Where is their vocal oppostiion to the many wars and conflicts in the middle east that don't involve Israel? I can't recall much more than a scant reference to Iran, and even then it was more about the illegal Chump/Net war and not the 30,00+ civilians killed (although this could be because the newspapers and the ABC don;'t gibve them much coverage). 

 

Then, yeah. good on the Greens for sticking with their morals. Give them a clap. They're just being perfect and it's not anti-semitism at all.

 

Shame though, because most of heir policies, if implemented properly, seem pretty good. 

 

Would I vote for them despite the above? Actually, probably, because thankfully in the incredibly unlikely event they got in,  they cold probably block exports and imports to/from Israel. I don't think wither country would lose sleep over it. 

 

Given it is unlikely they would get in, the additional primnarly vote would hopefully send a message to the majors to lift their game in the other areas.

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

14 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

The Qld State govt minister told the Greens it was monitored. Nothing happened after that, that I know of. I felt disappointed the Greens didn't fight to get it cleaned up.

The only similar experience I've had was not with the Greens, but with our local environment council which is an independent organisation. Back before the tree clearing laws came in, a landowner near me with a 20 acre block on the side of a hill got a dozer and cleared the lot, then got an excavator to terrace the whole block like rice paddies. It looked awful, like a giant rock quarry and could be seen for miles. Probably the worst eyesore I've ever seen in the district.

 

I decided to let the environment council know without naming names, just to inform them of the type of thing the shire council was approving. I thought it might be in their interest. They were barely interested, and all they seemed interested in was shoving brochures and membership application forms in my face. I walked out of there fairly disgusted that all they seemed to want was membership money. I think it was probably individual staff on the day to blame rather than the whole organisation.

[Litespeed]

Jerry,

 

Once again you go off on a rant and show your inherent bias to Israel.