Gnarly Gnu Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Yes it would have been nice to let them spend the rest of their lives in jail instead of shooting them but the way that we (Australia and australian media) have been carrying on I'd be surprised if they just didn't get sick of our whingeing and shoot them to shut us up. Exactly. The media here made such a huge thing about this affair the Indo's had to carry though with their executions as a matter of pride. Never hear much about other Australians in gaol / on death row overseas. My support for Red Cross evaporated the day I watched the video of a Red Cross "relief drop" with a machine gun trained out each side of the chopper. Red Cross actively supporting terrorists with equipment etc in the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 They'd already spent longer in prison than most criminals here get for murder. We know that the death penalty is not a deterrent. What was the point of killing these men? Because that is the law in Indonesia, whether you agree or disagree with the death penalty that is what they do to people that smuggle drugs....they were fully aware of this law and still they continued to peddle there poison. I am disgusted in the media as they just jumped on the bandwagon to sell newspapers as I am with all these politian's crying over their deaths and making such a song and dance like they were some sot of hard done by hero's.. Lets call as it was....they were convicted drug smugglers, they were guilty and they got what they deserved...end of story... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 It does appear ,however , to give people with authority a sense of power ...... Bob And people with limited intellects...and questionable morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 What are you going to do about this? http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/death-penalty-case-sydney-man-peter-gardner-to-face-guangzhou-court-over-drug-charges/story-fnh81fz8-1227327323067 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Evans Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You may want to let Doug Evans know this since he gave me a creative for my post. Sorry about that big clumsy fingers and a touchy iPad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Sorry Marty I stopped reading when I saw you say 'legalise everything' While we mightn't have everything in perspective we still need some things to be illegal. I certainly wouldn't be happy to have 'ice' and 'heroin' and all the rest of them legalised. It doesn't matter how legal you make it it all still fries your brains and no amount of counselling at the selling point would fix it. I'm with Bex, I have a sibling and her partner addicted to weed and ice and no matter how much support and help they are given they still go back and go to great lengths to get their next fix and the worst part is the attitude that the world owes them everything, they don't want a job as it takes away from their high time and between the dole and selling the odd item they have enough to get by (high) I don't agree with killing people as punishment but that is the law in Indonesia and the way the media has carried on IMHO is disgraceful. Indonesia has as much right to do what they have done as we do locking up foreigners for crimes committed while here. Yes it would have been nice to let them spend the rest of their lives in jail instead of shooting them but the way that we (Australia and australian media) have been carrying on I'd be surprised if they just didn't get sick of our whingeing and shoot them to shut us up. Mate I'm really sorry to hear about your sister. The point is that some people will get addicted to things and if one type of substance is unavailable they will go for another. If heroin was made legal and produced at cost, no one would be addicted to ice. Obviously the substances being illegal is not stopping people from using them. We laugh at the way the Yanks tried Prohibition in the 20's and 30's, the "temperance societies" at the time were pushing exactly the same lines that alcohol ruins lives and corrupts morals, and the act of making alcohol illegal gave rise to the mobsters, gun violence, high black market costs, and associated crime. We haven't learned much in 90 years. What are you going to do about this?http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/death-penalty-case-sydney-man-peter-gardner-to-face-guangzhou-court-over-drug-charges/story-fnh81fz8-1227327323067 Repeat my previous post. It doesn't matter which country kills people, whether it's Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, USA or China. It's still wrong. Coca Cola was once the polite way to take cocaine, if your dentist didn't have any.Morphine was supposed to cure opium addiction and heroine was supposed to cure morphine addiction. Which heroine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 becs, alcohol is the gateway drug of every addict Supporting stats FT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I've never met anyone who hasn't sighted early access to alcohol as part of their drug problem. having unsupervised access to alcohol when you are 13 is pretty common these days. I live next to a school and I have seen empty beer cans in the student carpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I've never met anyone who hasn't sighted early access to alcohol as part of their drug problem. having unsupervised access to alcohol when you are 13 is pretty common these days. I live next to a school and I have seen empty beer cans in the student carpark. That's not supporting stats FT that's apochrophy. So is this: I live next a walk-way and I've found used syringes and used condoms in my garden beds, Pretty confident they weren't mine. I've met hundreds of addicts through my work and the majority cite marijuana as their gateway drug to the heavy stuff. Not saying that grog doesn't play a part but I doubt your assertion that it's the principal gateway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 you can google if you like, I'm not stopping you. there are so many studies linking alcohol abuse in teenagers with development issues its hard to pick one that encompasses all the problems. On the gold coast, steroid and fake tan users out number junkies at the needle exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 anecdote<> stats........that said, I agree that the various state health systems would rejoice and almost anything would become possible within them, if alcohol initiated issues were able to be removed as a burden on them...... Responsible Alcohol consumption is the unattainable answer.... Then there is the flow on benefits to the policing and the justice system and of course individual families.......Anyone that says Alcohol is not a problem should never be flying VFR because clearly they don't know how to opern their eyes.... HEALTH:-http://amansw.com.au/news/articles/alcohol-abuse-is-a-massive-burden-on-the-nsw-health-system/ POLICE:-http://www.ndlerf.gov.au/publications/monographs/monograph-25 NSW GOVERNMENT IN TOTAL:- https://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/281/01_Cost_of_alcohol_abuse_NSW_Government_Full_Report.pdf.aspx?Embed=Y For those that are interested the exec summary identifies in the last link I provided above that in the year of 2010 (The report was authored in August 2013) the annual impact to taxpayers in NSW alone was $1.029B dollars, or to put it another way every household in NSW suffered an impost in taxation of $416 to pay for the effects of Alcohol abuse in NSW alone... Even more appalling in my view was that the total societal costs for Alcohol abuse (which includes the 1.029B as a subset) was $3.87B or nearly $1600 per household in NSW alone......I cant speak for all but for my household, do we get $1600 of "enjoyment/Value from that cost...Hell no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Alcohol CAN be used in moderation and with food to advantage. Wine has been around for 1,000's of years. The only drunks I see in France are NOT french although they use it a lot, but I would (in my experience) say not to excess as many do. When I was young if you made a fool or nuisance of yourself when drinking you "could not hold your Liquor" and were looked down on Having said that Australia is a place where it's almost compulsory to drink and many can't go a few AFD's (Alcohol Free Days) IF you can't you are really an alcoholic Addiction is the disease. We have it to coffee sugar salt smoking and excess drinking as well as other things like medical prescriptions and antibiotics. Commercial interests utilise these addictions to make profits Look how they resist proper labelling as an example. and the allied Liquor trades association lobbies governments and uses sport for a vehicle. I should have added GAMBLING to the list. Guess who's big with that Woolworths and the Catholic church among others and where do they put most of their Pokies In the LESS well off suburbs, where the people live in hope of getting the big one. Cynical isn't it? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 anecdote<> stats........that said, I agree that the various state health systems would rejoice and almost anything would become possible within them, if alcohol initiated issues were able to be removed as a burden on them...... Responsible Alcohol consumption is the unattainable answer.... Then there is the flow on benefits to the policing and the justice system and of course individual families.......Anyone that says Alcohol is not a problem should never be flying VFR because clearly they don't know how to opern their eyes.... HEALTH:-http://amansw.com.au/news/articles/alcohol-abuse-is-a-massive-burden-on-the-nsw-health-system/ POLICE:-http://www.ndlerf.gov.au/publications/monographs/monograph-25 NSW GOVERNMENT IN TOTAL:- https://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/281/01_Cost_of_alcohol_abuse_NSW_Government_Full_Report.pdf.aspx?Embed=Y For those that are interested the exec summary identifies in the last link I provided above that in the year of 2010 (The report was authored in August 2013) the annual impact to taxpayers in NSW alone was $1.029B dollars, or to put it another way every household in NSW suffered an impost in taxation of $416 to pay for the effects of Alcohol abuse in NSW alone... Even more appalling in my view was that the total societal costs for Alcohol abuse (which includes the 1.029B as a subset) was $3.87B or nearly $1600 per household in NSW alone......I cant speak for all but for my household, do we get $1600 of "enjoyment/Value from that cost...Hell no! I agree totally, but the answer is not to outlaw alcohol. Education and good role models go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 you can google if you like, I'm not stopping you. there are so many studies linking alcohol abuse in teenagers with development issues its hard to pick one that encompasses all the problems.On the gold coast, steroid and fake tan users out number junkies at the needle exchange. You're sounding more and more like Turbs FT. You make a statement and when queried the answer is "you go look it up". Disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 You're sounding more and more like Turbs FT. You make a statement and when queried the answer is "you go look it up". Disappointing. He's learning that some people just snipe for effect, and have no real interest in the subject matter other than flashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumarn, had been in prison for 10 years! They rehabilitated themselves and helped others to do the same, the simple fact, is, they were no longer the persons they where when they were arrested!.... Sure! They they went against the country`s laws, but they could have been spared the death penalty and been an asset in rehabilitating others, which would have done far more good than what has happened. As far as I`m concerned, they, and their families, were put through a long, slow process of torture! for what?...I think I`d be correct in saying, it`s made no difference to the illicit drug situation and right at this very moment, there will be any number of users, using, all over the world. To say, Andrew and Myuran won`t do it again, is, to my way of thinking, simply stupid, to the exreme. I have as much sympathy for the users and their families, as anyone can, however, the problem, (challenge if you prefer), is not going to be fixed by revenge. Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 becs, alcohol is the gateway drug of every addict Did you read that on a calender somewhere? Kids in Mornington in my time, around 14 to 17, were smoking dope en-mass, way before drinking started in later teens, including me. Can't even remember seeing my Brother drunk or even drinking for that matter, was always his face stuck in a Bong in the early days. I happened to find minibikes by day and girls by night far more interesting. To say, Andrew and Myuran won`t do it again, is, to my way of thinking, simply stupid, to the exreme. With my workshop I agreed to be a part of the Logan "Gateway" program for a while that gave Parolee's part time work to help them back into the workforce. My opinion is that the bulk of Crims will never change, they just want the easiest way in life they can find. What shocked me was learning how much some of them get up to and how small the ratio of discovery really is. I actually had a good friendship with one of them. His main issue was Speed and he used to appreciate being inside occasionally, usually for a few months at a time as he got off it for a while, got fed well and exercise. His 'Day Job' was money collection that he was very good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I agree with the above. Most of the boys I knew who liked a drink were too interested in getting to the pub for a schooner and a punt to worry about anything else. The ones who ended up in trouble weren't drinkers mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 All the drug addicts I have met over the years have drunk through the week and hit the hard stuff on the weekends. Your average wage slave can't afford to do the hard stuff every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So given the sentiment that they had rehabilitated themselves, ashould we then let out the anita coby killers, the janine balding killers, the port arthur assassin and sundry other nasties because they have .."rehabilitated" themselves. Wake up people, these are worse than killers, they did it deliberately knowing the end result to their victims. They knew what would happen if they got caught. Bleeding hearts are all very well, but what about a solution to the probl;em that doesnt cost us money that could be better spent elsewhere. This case has nothing to do with alcohol, marijuana or smoking, it has to do with the willful importation of heroin into a country that has specifically given the death sentence for its importation. What about showing sympathy for those here in Australia that need it, old people, ill people and those not as lucky as us. This is not the first time these 2 brought drugs into countries. How about we get back to flying and the important things in life, not the removeal of some garbage overseas that no one really cares about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Isn't it ironic that the poppy fields in Afghanistan have been protected from being destroyed by coalition forces because drug exportation from Afghanistan is the countries biggest money earner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 They were taking it OUT of the country The ten years they served was about the normal sentence for murder in most countries. They were helping others in the prison where they were well liked. The hardening up and death sentence is a political decision. Indonesia has a big drug problem. Killing "foreigners" hasn't shown to be a game changer. as far as stopping it. Makes the president look strong for internal consumption. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'm seeing; "Andrew and Myuran", "Andrew and Myuran", "Andrew and Myuran" everywhere ........ What the hell happened to Chan and Sukumaran the DRUG SMUGGLERS? This has to be one of the most pathetic media episodes in Australia's history. The hardening up and death sentence is a political decision. And well within their law. You also see it written quite clearly when you board and disembark the plane and go both ways through Customs, rather large signs actually and they are everywhere and can not be missed ... Nev, You might want to go out at 2am around the back lanes near the Story Bridge tonight and see some of the end results of these guys. Don't go alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 stay in china bex, australia has gone too soft for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Don't join Falangong though. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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