Gnarly Gnu Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Mind you, I am a bit surprised at your own comments above. People are only human after all, even the popes, and it does seem to indicate a certain lack of Christian tolerance, humility and forbearance on your part, Gnu. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed. Haha.... disappointment - found one thing Gnu is good at. This present pope may well be a nice person, I just prefer Mr Rapsinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 You are certainly right that a woman tried to become Pope. Even now there is a public ritual inspection of genitals as a part of new Popes being inducted. Quite funny to watch. Not that I get a vote but the new Pope is the brightest move by the Catholic Church since they shut down the Inquisition. He is a credit to Francis of Assisi that he chose to be named after and wants to emulate. A genuine humanist. Ratzinger was a bit too close to the child molesting scandal and had to excuse himself before he was exposed for crimes against children that went unreported to the Polizei. Not that he was personally involved but may have been another Bishop who covered up these awful crimes. I thought it was Limbo that the last or one before declared was no longer "real". Limbo was a place where unbaptised babies went. Not quite heaven but not hell. Gnarly, wtf has ISIS got to do with the people of Jericho slaughtered by God's chosen people who wrote your bible? There they were minding there own business when a bunch of wandering goat herders surrounded their city and played such bad trumpet that their walls fell down. And then the Jews proudly slaughtered them all and wrote about it in the Bible. What a wonderful example for us all to follow. What happened to the 5th and 7th Commandments? And tell me which of the 613 Commandments in the Bible do you adhere to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Would you be disappointed or surprised if I told you GNu hasn't actually read the Bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 FT, I am sure he is busy reading about the rape of Jericho right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 This thread has now gone full circle back to smug atheist claims again. As I tried to explain to you in #63 some people (like ISIS) are so vile they must be destroyed. The Canaanites were the same - engaging in violent and perverted practises such as child sacrifice means you are heading for destruction. Jericho and the land around is the inheritance of Israel so these creeps (v9-12) were also invaders. This may not sit well with your secular humanist views but so be it, in the end justice will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I resent the gratuitous insult "smug" - if you can't argue logic, resort to insult? Is that the Christian way? I have no problems with getting rid of the theists (ISIL) who believe in your God (Allah - Arabic word for the God of the Bible) and call themselves ISIL (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant). Sodom and Gomorrah may have practised customs that the Jews found abhorrent but that doesn't necessarily make the Canaanites evil - just different. Remember, the people who wrote the Bible would think your custom of eating pork pretty repulsive as well. Should you be killed by a Jew for that? History, in the case of the destruction of Jericho was written by the oppressor Jewish forces. How do we know that the Jews didn't make this stuff up about the Canaanites to make them a legitimate target for genocide? If the Jews tried that again today, the UN would be down on them like a ton of hot bricks. Sadly for the Canaanites, their was no peacekeeping force to defend them against the fundamentalist Jewish extremists. Point is that nobody on this planet should be excused for killing a human being because that human being doesn't respect the killer's religious beliefs. Jews killed Canaanites because Jews wanted the " land of milk and honey " allegedly promised to them by their God to his "chosen people" - all sounds very convenient to me and in breach of Commandments 5, 7 and 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 " Truth, it has been said, is the first casualty of war." E. D. Morel "History is written by the victors." Winston S Churchill. Why would this not have always been so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 See http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/fear-ebola-outbreak-make-nation-turn-science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This thread has now gone full circle back to smug atheist claims again. As I tried to explain to you in #63 some people (like ISIS) are so vile they must be destroyed. The Canaanites were the same - engaging in violent and perverted practises such as child sacrifice means you are heading for destruction. Jericho and the land around is the inheritance of Israel so these creeps (v9-12) were also invaders. This may not sit well with your secular humanist views but so be it, in the end justice will be done. And all the firstborn sons of Egypt that were supposedly murdered by your merciful god? What depravities had all those male children got up to? And EVERYONE in Sodom & Gomorrah was into gang rape? Who did they rape then? Were the women of the city involved too? How about their mothers? And EVERYONE in Canaan killed kids? And what about that big flood that supposedly killed everyone except Noah and his family? (Oh, and the several hundred thousand species of animal life they managed to fit into the ark. Mucking out the elephant enclosure must've been hellish, especially after a rough sea.) Out of all of humanity, only 1 man (and his immediate family) were not evil enough to be wiped out? Anyone who literally believes every word of the bible (or koran, torah, or whatever) may as well believe Marine Todd. He makes as much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Seems to come naturally Don, perhaps you don't realise it. Gnarly, wtf has ISIS got to do with the people of Jericho slaughtered by God's chosen people who wrote your bible? There they were minding there own business when a bunch of wandering goat herders surrounded their city and played such bad trumpet that their walls fell down. And then the Jews proudly slaughtered them all and wrote about it in the Bible. And tell me which of the 613 Commandments in the Bible do you adhere to? And repeating the false claim that Yahweh of the Bible is Allah of the Koran is either ignorance or another example. Everything described in both books about them shows polar opposites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Seems to come naturally Don, perhaps you don't realise it. And repeating the false claim that Yahweh of the Bible is Allah of the Koran is either ignorance or another example. Everything described in both books about them shows polar opposites. I agree, the God of the Bible is clearly a different god than the one of the Q'uran (Koran). Their attributes are so different they cannot be the same god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 God has sent his instrument of justice with Marine Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I agree, the God of the Bible is clearly a different god than the one of the Q'uran (Koran). Their attributes are so different they cannot be the same god. Unfortunately the devout followers of both sides have each perpetrated their fair share of massacres in good faith down through the ages. Plenty of Greek, Roman and other gods to choose from too if you want to compare attributes. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 A fanatic's a fanatic. Whether it be some f***wit in Iraq beheading journalists, or a f***wit in the USA shooting doctors who perform abortions, or a f***wit in Norway massacring 77 people, they all believe they're doing it for their god. Unfortunately religion seems to attract the most mentally disturbed people. Don't see many secular humanists going on murderous rampages. Makes you wonder why we attract so much ire from the religious folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 GNu God saving Marine Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Marty D......Must be a threat to them Are they insecure?. You would think going to hell would be enough punishment for the unbelievers. Being in the same place as many of them would be hell. in itself.. In the early days the Christians were persecuted. I accept that They were regarded as a threat to the existing order.. The term " massacres in good faith " is interesting. Any Totalitarian state STINKs regardless of the Mantra it enshrines for its justification. It enslaves you and eliminates freedom(s) The roman church is a Triumvirate. The father, Son and Holy ghost. To the Islamists Jesus (the son in the triumvirate ) is recognised as a prophet, but Mohammed is THEIR important prophet and supposedly the LAST one. Hence the statement from them there is only ONE god. It does sound more practical than having three. All religions think they have the right one and consequently all the others are not correct. Therefore to most thousands of religions don't make the grade. An atheist just adds one to the number of FAITHS out there not accepted by the believers, and has no INVISIBLE means of support. They obviously believe that is acceptable or perhaps a necessary part of thinking more clearly. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Somebody's published a dictionary of Gods; it names about 1400 of them, from various religions. Quite a few are obviously the same, but with different names according to the religion. It's not that I don't believe in them, so much as I don't believe they live up to their advertising . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 If you sold cars by cutting off the heads of people who didn't like the idea you would eventually run out of drivers. . Fairly basic sales technique, hardly likely to pass any trades practices laws.Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Marty D......Must be a threat to them Are they insecure?.You would think going to hell would be enough punishment for the unbelievers. Being in the same place as many of them would be hell. in itself.. In the early days the Christians were persecuted. I accept that They were regarded as a threat to the existing order.. The term " massacres in good faith " is interesting. Any Totalitarian state STINKs regardless of the Mantra it enshrines for its justification. It enslaves you and eliminates freedom(s) The roman church is a Triumvirate. The father, Son and Holy ghost. To the Islamists Jesus (the son in the triumvirate ) is recognised as a prophet, but Mohammed is THEIR important prophet and supposedly the LAST one. Hence the statement from them there is only ONE god. It does sound more practical than having three. All religions think they have the right one and consequently all the others are not correct. Therefore to most thousands of religions don't make the grade. An atheist just adds one to the number of FAITHS out there not accepted by the believers, and has no INVISIBLE means of support. They obviously believe that is acceptable or perhaps a necessary part of thinking more clearly. Nev NO! NO! NO! Don't make that mistake! Being an atheist (that's from the greek: it means, "not a theist" ) is by definition NOT a faith; in fact it's an absence of faith. Faith is belief without proof. An atheist does not accept doctrine - i.e. he does not believe in belief without proof. Take your damn dogma and go somewhere else, is the general attitude of Atheists. Atheism is NOT a belief that there is no such thing as a God; an Atheist does not bother believing in an unprovable negative. If a God bothers to prove his reality, your average atheist would acknowledge that - but he's not going to do so because some fanatic tells him to do so OR ELSE. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The bit you object to Dafydd is really very tongue in cheek . Non theism is not a religion. An absence of all of a certain thing cannot be considered a part of that thing, unless by very convoluted logic.. I get rather surprised when people of Faith (not all of course) want to lump it in as another belief.. I have heard the term "Extremist Atheist" used a fair bit.. Like you say I would imagine some God like scary creature appearing , an atheist would probably give some serious consideration to this thing being something OUT of this WORLD.. God made in the image of man, I find a bit unimaginative and unlikely in the extreme. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The bit you object to Dafydd is really very tongue in cheek . Non theism is not a religion. An absence of all of a certain thing cannot be considered a part of that thing, unless by very convoluted logic.. I get rather surprised when people of Faith (not all of course) want to lump it in as another belief.. I have heard the term "Extremist Atheist" used a fair bit.. Like you say I would imagine some God like scary creature appearing , an atheist would probably give some serious consideration to this thing being something OUT of this WORLD.. God made in the image of man, I find a bit unimaginative and unlikely in the extreme. Nev Not sure what you are trying to say; atheism is a state of mind, not a religion. Do atheists have a church where they assemble to NOT believe in God? Don't be bloody silly! I do NOT want freedom of religion; I want freedom FROM religion. Religion has been the greatest single cause of misery on this Planet. It's arguably a form of post-traumatic stress syndrome; i.e. it's a disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I though I was clear enough. I'm certainly not in to being bullied and coerced like I was when I was young. Indoctrinated by fear of a hell of fire and brimstone and a Jealous God who put us here to praise Him/It and who seems to be party to the worst failings of the human condition him/ itself. .There is hardly a job in America you would get if you declared yourself an atheist, especially public office. They are ALL as MAD/ BAD as each other, and that country thinks itself to be a world leading example of how to do it right.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I though I was clear enough. I'm certainly not in to being bullied and coerced like I was when I was young. Indoctrinated by fear of a hell of fire and brimstone and a Jealous God who put us here to praise Him/It and who seems to be party to the worst failings of the human condition him/ itself..There is hardly a job in America you would get if you declared yourself an atheist, especially public office. They are ALL as MAD/ BAD as each other, and that country thinks itself to be a world leading example of how to do it right.. Nev Yes, well you've put your finger right on the core of the raison d'etre of religion - traumatisation of children when they are too young to recognise the fallacy of what they are being taught. That is the trauma that results in PTSS, in adults. Look it up. I was fortunate to have parents who did not expose me to that form of trauma as a child. When you see it for what it really is, that treatment of children is a hideous crime. Religious education, my foot. There is some evidence that some of the forms of treatment for hypertension - the ones that are essentially tranquillisers - can break the vicious circle set up by religious trauma. Those people need medical treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The down fall of every catholic, Read the word . Trust in the lord with all your heart and LEAN NOT to you own understanding, In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Prov. Its worked for my famly and i 35 years + . Started in acts 2 , mark 16 , acts 19 for starters. Cuts out all the men that think they know it all ( spiritly speaking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Not sure what you are trying to say; atheism is a state of mind, not a religion. Do atheists have a church where they assemble to NOT believe in God? Don't be bloody silly!... Actually Dafydd, meeting places for atheists have been opened in recent times. It seems the human need for communal "worship" is satisfied by gathering and singing songs about the best in human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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