DonRamsay Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Sometimes I think we need a "that is really beyond stupid" button when I read about evolution being a "belief" and that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth together. Firstly though we all need to get a grip on what the "A" means in front of the word "Atheist". The "A" indicates "without reference to". It does not stand for "Anti"or against. Some Atheists are anti religion because they are intellectually offended by people who chose to believe rather than think. Or they just want freedom *from* religion. Why should a Muslim have to close his business on Christmas Day because Christians are offended by people working on the biggest Christian holiday? Why should a Christian have to fast during Ramadan? Why should a Jew have to comply with Christian laws over Easter? So there is, e.g., Moral, IMmoral and Amoral. A Moral person follows certain generally accepted "good" behaviours (not necessarily dictated by a supernatural being). An Immoral person acts contrary to certain generally accepted behaviours. An Amoral person would act without regard to generally accepted behaviours. By the same logic, there are Theists who are people who have been told by people they trust that there is a God and they better follow certain practices or they will burn in hell for all eternity. And then there are Atheists who have no regard whatever for matters supernatural and base their behaviour on other principles like ethics, logic and even common sense and consideration for their fellow man. You don't have to be a theist to see that murder and theft are not acceptable practices. Richard Dawkins would scoff if I were to say "we are all born atheists" even though that is a 24 carat fact. Nobody is actually born a Christian Muslim or Jew all are acquired prejudices, usually during infancy as a "gift" from those who have power over us. Richard Dawkins would argue that "being born atheists" has no validity because we are all also born non-skiers, and illiterate. But what is true is unarguable is that every Christian, Muslim and Jew, every buddhist, Daoist and Scientologist is one because, usually, at an early age they were brainwashed. No Christian is allowed to reach the age of reason and work out for themselves what makes sense. They may, on reaching the age of reason, chose not to continue to believe but for many it is too late because the prejudices are so ingrained they don't even suspect that their life may be based on a superstition. FT, if you put another one of those marine stories up I am going to come around to your place and break all your fingers. It's not that I find them offensive, I do, but it reminds me that there are people on this planet who believe every word of that appalling crap and that shatters my belief that mankind is overwhelmingly good and sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 FT, if you put another one of those marine stories up I am going to come around to your place and break all your fingers. It's not that I find them offensive, I do, but it reminds me that there are people on this planet who believe every word of that appalling crap and that shatters my belief that mankind is overwhelmingly good and sensible. It's ok Don - the number of people who believe every word of that appalling crap are statistically insignificant, and I share your belief that mankind is overwhelmingly good and sensible. Personally, I get a chuckle out of Marine Todd. What will the scamp get up to next?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 This looks like a screen shot from something you have gleaned from the internet. You read some weird stuff, FT! there are many truths that are self evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Don, here is a lengthy middle class think piece to clarrify some of the issues of Marine Todd https://medium.com/matter/the-ballad-of-marine-todd-7886a0f200bd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Thanks RT, I think. That was more boring than Marine Todd was appalling. I think I left the :-) off my post before but I knew you are smart enough to see the irony of somebody objecting to a violent redneck and promising violence as the answer to violent text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 ...Theists who are people who have been told by people they trust that there is a God and they better follow certain practices or they will burn in hell for all eternity... But what is true is unarguable is that every Christian, Muslim and Jew, every buddhist, Daoist and Scientologist is one because, usually, at an early age they were brainwashed. No Christian is allowed to reach the age of reason and work out for themselves what makes sense. I agree with your epistle Don, but could imagine it causing affront to some. As a lapsed/lost member of one religion I have seen wonderful acts of humanity by professed believers as well as plenty of hypocracy. I've also seen the same among unbelievers. Good character is not confined to those with expressed religious faith. Perhaps the bravest are those who speak out rather than going blindly along with the mob. They are the true heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Culture war heroes like GNu and MArine Todd??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 And then there are Atheists who have no regard whatever for matters supernatural and base their behaviour on other principles like ethics, logic and even common sense and consideration for their fellow man. You don't have to be a theist to see that murder and theft are not acceptable practices. You might hope. There is a strong correlation between fundamental atheists and Islam (strictly Mohammadanism). Countries founded on these systems like Cuba, North Korea, USSR and Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc have no problem killing plenty of people as 'a moral thing to do'. Freedom, joy, love are suppressed - bigotry and intolerance rule the day... not quite what you imagined as "acceptable practices" I suspect. This is why atheist organizations in the west (like the ABC here) are quite accepting of and active in promoting Islam. I believe they serve the same boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 That's a pile of rubbish Gnu. Good is not confined to any group . Non theists are not of a religion. Infidel (non believer) may be a fairly accurate term but they don't belong to a belief per se. It's an absence if something ,(belief in a supernatural omnipotent being) not another version. There is no atheists book of rules, no plan to eliminate all opposing views, like many theists have. CONVERTING people to a way of BELIEF under threat of beheading etc is a total atrocity. The French Catholics forced their version of theism on the Nordic people under threat of death. There's not much new in all of this.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 ...atheist organizations in the west (like the ABC here) are quite accepting of and active in promoting Islam. I believe they serve the same boss. Crickey GG, I'd missed that! You mean Auntie is a front for the Islamisation of Oz? Next time I watch an episode if Compass I'll have to be on my guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If you see something, say something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Gnarly, you need to get out more. Cuba was founded by his Catholic Majesty, King of Spain and is very Catholic despite years of Communism. Have a look at Russia and see if 75 years of Communism made that country any less preponderantly Christian Orthodox. Communism saw religion as the "opiate of the masses" and needed to replace one religion, christianity, with another religion Stalinism. It had everything to do with power and nothing to do with atheism. The followers of Mohammed are usually know as Muslims. And they are as far from atheism as you can possibly get. They are fervent followers of the same God as Christians and Jews. All three religions adhere to the Bible and recognise the same prophets. Their claim is that Mohammed was the last prophet and that there will be no other prophets after him. The "moral" code of Muslims is the Bible. If you think about the siege of Jericho, was that not a genocidal attack by the "chosen people" on a people who had done nothing wrong but to have lived at Jericho over the generations since 8,000 BC. Jericho is thought to be the first city in the world. Islam has two principal tenets that I find abhorrent. The first is Apostasy that requires the murder of any muslim who walks away from Islam. The second is that all persons who do not accept conversion to Islam are infidels the punishment for which is death. Issues like modest dressing (hijab, niqab and burqa) are trivial compared with that. OldK,, you are right that some of what I wrote above could be confronting. I regret some of my colourful language but the principal intent is to show that being atheist does not make you anti anything. It can make you open to evidence, scientific method and the pure logic that all entails. It does make it difficult, at times, not to be depressed that so many people prefer mysticism to science. The one thing in all this I am for is separation of Church and State. Few Australians would want Shariah law but plenty of fundamentalist Christians insist on Christian Law as if it were somehow different. All I require is to be able to live my life free of Religion. No Scientologists, no Jehovah's Witnesses or any other mob banging on about what I should believe or that I am somehow without purpose because I don't believe in one of the thousands of Gods that other humans subscribe allegiance to whatever they call their particular God or Gods. I have grave reservations of the ABC's particularly left leaning bias so ingrained that they don't even realise they do tilt to the left. But, to be honest I've not noticed them espousing atheism as a way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 The followers of Mohammed are usually know as Muslims. And they are as far from atheism as you can possibly get. They are fervent followers of the same God as Christians and Jews. All three religions adhere to the Bible and recognise the same prophets. Their claim is that Mohammed was the last prophet and that there will be no other prophets after him. The "moral" code of Muslims is the Bible. These are common myths and having studied both in depth I can assure you they absolutely incorrect Don. Besides I didn't claim Moslems were atheists, just that the countries they rule share many common traits. Moslems worship Allah who is the exact opposite number to the God described in the Bible. Allah dwells in hell for example (the one place God cannot be) punishing unbelievers, he encourages lying to and stealing from non-Moslems and there are many other instances. Moslems absolutely do not follow the moral code of the Bible. Much of the major laws and legal principles in western countries are still based on the Old Testament laws, Islam has sharia law which is altogether different and indeed opposite in some key areas. If you think about the siege of Jericho, was that not a genocidal attack by the "chosen people" on a people who had done nothing wrong but to have lived at Jericho over the generations since 8,000 BC. Jericho is thought to be the first city in the world. What ISIS shows us so starkly is that some people are so utterly evil they must be completely destroyed. It was the same in Old Testament times; you have places like Sodom where the entire population were participating in mass gang rapes and other violence and depravity. Again what seems "acceptable practises" to you doesn't to other people. On the humour side I find it funny you still read f_t posts, I gave up long ago. He is a disturbed individual and longs for the response and reaction of others; instead of threatening to break his fingers you could maybe offer him professional help or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I think F-T needs help. He needs someone to love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Allah dwells in hell for example (the one place God cannot be) punishing unbelievers I thought the pope told the Catholics that hell doesn't exist. That makes it official doesn't it? rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 On this day we honour two great atheists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I thought the pope told the Catholics that hell doesn't exist. That makes it official doesn't it? This pope is no good, he is boring and a socialist like f_t. In the bad old days things were more lively. At one stage there were two popes sitting at once & fighting with each other. Another time there was a woman pope (dressed as a man of course). Sadly she died in childbirth.* * no, not making this up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 God works in mysterious ways! How else can you explain Marine Todd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 This pope is no good, he is boring and a socialist like f_t. In the bad old days things were more lively. At one stage there were two popes sitting at once & fighting with each other. Another time there was a woman pope (dressed as a man of course). Sadly she died in childbirth.* * no, not making this up... There were in fact three popes simultaneously at one stage: Urban VI, Clement VII and Alexander V. Finally, in 1414 (600 years ago), they all stood down and a new pope was appointed: Martin V. Sadly, the Roman Catholic church officials were moved by politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 What if I told you there was more than one Marine Todd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 We simply would not believe you. There is no substantive proof there is even one Marine Todd in the way you have described him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 But you have read from the holy scriptures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 There were in fact three popes simultaneously at one stage: Urban VI, Clement VII and Alexander V. Finally, in 1414 (600 years ago), they all stood down and a new pope was appointed: Martin V. Sadly, the Roman Catholic church officials were moved by politics. Read The Hiram Key; if the authors' research progresses it will turn the Roman Catholic Church upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This pope is no good, he is boring and a socialist like f_t. In the bad old days things were more lively. At one stage there were two popes sitting at once & fighting with each other. Another time there was a woman pope (dressed as a man of course). Sadly she died in childbirth.** no, not making this up... Yes, I saw those programs too, and also stopped listening to the various popes too many years ago to remember now. It wasn't this pope who said hell didn't exist as a place anyway, it was one of the other ones. Mind you, I am a bit surprised at your own comments above. People are only human after all, even the popes, and it does seem to indicate a certain lack of Christian tolerance, humility and forbearance on your part, Gnu. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I find I can't read GNus posts about Jesus and the Virgin Mother and not feel a little disappointed sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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