willedoo

It's well worth it. I'm a bit biased as my all time favourite movie genre is submarine movies, but for any technically minded person it's got heaps of interest. They were a British design if my memory is correct.

onetrack, have you been on the HMAS Ovens? I did the tour when I was over there eleven years ago, very interesting inside.

For a while now the national conversation has all been about the rise of One Nation. That's where most of the coalition votes are going so the fate of the coalition will all depend on how ON tracks in the next two years until the election. If ON keeps growing or even stays at current polling levels, then the coalition is dead and the vacuum will be there for a new centre right party to emerge. If ON trips up or fizzles out early enough, then the coalition still has time to rebuild before the next election. For the coalition to have any chance I think ON would have to be in significant decline by the end of this year. Problem for the coalition is time is getting short. If ON stuffs right up early enough, we're back to the two party status quo; if they keep rolling on, it's a three party system coming - Labor, One Nation and whatever party emerges as the centre right replacement for the coalition.

It seems like we've got a long history of defence acquisition problems. I guess it wouldn't be an easy job trying to figure out something way into the future and finding the money for it.

I think the original deal was two used subs and one new one, now it's changed to three used subs.

At 90 degrees it's easy to judge. At distance you can hold your arm out and spread a couple of fingers from base to tree top and flip them sideways to see where the top will land. Or if closer use a stick. Even eyballing it is better than nothing.

I've seen Merino rams with gigantic chokos from brucellosis where they were dragging on the ground and covered in burrs. It looks painful and they were so bow legged they could hardly walk. You only see it in rough country where the sheep are hard to manage and some have virtually gone feral.

No wonder that tapir has that look on his face, dragging his pecker trough the prickles like that.

Except for the last part. Soviet war losses don't have much to do with our relationship with the U.S., but the forum wouldn't be true to form without thread drift.

On the subject of blowing things up, back in the 1960's a mate of mine used to get gelignite from the local hardware store when he was a teenager. He used to make up a story that his dad had sent him in for it and he'd use it to blow fish when mullet were running. I can remember one of his dad's mates had half a hand missing from doing the same thing.

Back in the pre-registration, pre-license days there were a lot of problems in country areas with gun hoons causing trouble. It wasn't the locals, who were mostly farmers and all the locals were responsible firearm owners. The problem was with idiots passing through and shooting at road signs, farm sheds, livestock and wildlife. It didn't happen all the time but enough to be a problem. One of the saddest things is they used to shoot koalas up in the trees. I lost my best horse that way, intentionally shot by idiots travelling through. She was my pride and joy at the time, a tall black and white piebald mare, half thoroughbred. She was a beautiful looking mare and riding her was like sitting in an armchair it was that smooth. A once in a lifetime horse just like that once in a lifetime dog some people get to own.

Yes Nev, we have wandered off topic.

Small numbers when you think of the Soviets building 36,000 Ilyushin Il-2's, second only to the Cessna 172 in build numbers. I think the Ilyushin Il-2 numbers include the Il-10 made late in the war and post war.

It's hard to comprehend the sheer volume of lend-lease gear during the war. The Soviets received more than 1,300 Spitfires from Britain and almost 3,000 Hurricanes from Britain and Canada. The big item they needed from the US was trucks. Lack of German trucks was a big part of Hitler's downfall on the Eastern Front.

The Demographics bloke mentioned Malcolm Turnbull in the context of a centrist party but I have no idea whether he's still interested in active politics or not. The Lib/Nat coalition won't go back to the centre under the current leadership team. Angus Taylor and Matt Canavan as parlimentary leaders and Tony Abbott party president, plus Peta Credin's husband has taken on the role as temporary Victorian party president. It will leave space in the centre and a few unsatisfied Liberal moderates.

I was listening to the bloke from the Demographics Group tonight on the ABC radio and he was talking about the decline of the major parties. As he said, it's happening in a lot of other places around the world as well. The primary vote of the majors is at historic lows and a couple of opinion polls have even put the federal Labor primary vote below the 30% mark. He was of the belief One Nation would become the official opposition after the next election and that eventually a new centrist party would likely emerge. I think he and a lot of other commentators are jumping the gun on the One Nation as official opposition thing. For sure, recent poll projections show the Nationals without a seat, the Libs with about twelve, Labor with a majority of one or in minority and One Nation with fifty plus seats. But that's on current opinion polls and there's almost two years to go to an election. A lot can happen in that time. Labor could unravel, the coalition could get their act together and win voters back, and One Nation could continue to rise or they could implode and fizzle out. It's still early days. The end of the two major party system seems to be the talk of the town among commentators; I guess time will tell.

Thanks, I'm glad you cleared that one up otherwise there would be a lot of stupid people on Anzac Day. But then again, parliament house flys a really big flag and they're not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Not sure what you're referring to there Marty. I hope you don't mean people are stupid for flying the Australin Flag. Using quotes can make a post intention a bit clearer.

Yes correct Pete, that's pretty much what I'm saying.

I miss the huntsman spiders around the place and have only seen one in the last four or five years. I used to have lots of them, but it's all wolf spiders now. I think they've nearly wiped the huntsmen out.

Yes, it's a fact of life. It would be ignorant of us to think there was some high moral stance in them coming to our aid. They wouldn't be doing it because they think we're really nice people, or because they felt sorry for us. We would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot and we were the world's biggest power. We would want something in return the same as them. It's all transactional. I think it would have been much the same in WW2.

Aside from military assets, the US is heavily invested in Australia with more than 1,000 US companies operating here. 1.6 trillion in bilateral investment between the two countries, 70 billion annual bilateral trade, the US is our biggest foreign investor at about a quarter of our foreign investment, so there's plenty of interest here for them to help us defend the place. It wouldn't all be about military asets and bases.

The ANZUS alliance is non binding and doesn't mandate automatic armed intervention. What that means is if we didn't have U.S.assets here that are in their interests to defend, we'd be rooted in the event of a capable force attacking us. That means it's in our interests to allow them to have defendable interests here. The situation is that Australia is militarily weak, the U.S. is not a charity, and we need to give them something if we're asking for something.

I don't have a problem with it at the level and numbers it is now. They're our major defence ally and it would be a bit rich to tell them we don't want them on our soil but still expect them to spill blood for us in the event we are attacked. Any defence alliance is a two way street and has to be mutually beneficial with all parties paying their dues. The U.S. has bases all over the world and the amount we have here is buggar all compared to a lot of other countries. The reality is we don't have the capabilities to defend ourselves against a major adversary, hence the alliance with the U.S.. We have to pull our weight in the alliance and not expect to bludge off them.

Same thing in this district, a lot more noticeable in the last twelve months. Mostly younger people doing it.