It's time to put an end to the radicalisation of Australia.

[old man emu]

Thought I was going to have a rant about Islamic radicalisation, didn't you?

 

Those Islamic radicalisers are the mice in the skirting boards compared to the elephant in the room - the United States of America.

 

Are you lucky enough to spend time with young children and watch what they are watching on TV? I'm talking about little kids - preschoolers. I'm appalled at the amount of violence these kids are exposed to in the guise of cartoon entertainment. Do you know a little boy who doesn't swish around being Spiderman, or must be capped like Batman or Superman? Even the apparently innocent cartoons like Paw Patrol, Lion Guard, Miles from Tomorrowland and so on, have their story lines based on confrontation and the use of force to overcome problems.

 

Move on up the years and the early teens are subjected to the sexual innuendos of adolescent school life. By the time our kids reach their middle to late teens they are consuming a more varied diet of violence from music, film and social media.

 

Fodder for adults is a mixture of murder, money and infidelity, all with a liberal sprinkling of female sexploitation and intellectual exploitation.

 

We Australians have been subject to this radicalisation to violence and sexism since the days of Douglas Fairbanks Snr and Mary Pickford. It has become worse since the arrival of television in 1956. We are still suffering from the lotus-like effects of the drug culture, introduced by servicemen on R&R doped up by the US to keep them subservient in an unpopular military intervention. Then in the 70's we capitulated to Colonel Sander's army bombarding us with cholesterol cluttered cookery.

 

I say it's high time we took a bit of pride in our own unique culture created by the good, the bad and the ugly; the convict, the free man and the refugee, and stand up to the United States by telling them that we are not going to accept into our country any of their products which promote the use of violence to our children, our young people and to we adults.

 

Much is made of the relationship between Australia and its sibling, the United States of America. We have a saying that is used when danger is nigh ... "Mates don't let mates ..." It's about time we had the guts to turn to the United States of America and say, "Enough is enough! You come over as warmongering barbarians. If in God you trust, then compare your behaviour with the words of Christ. Change you attitudes, or don't come calling on us for backup."

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[fly_tornado]

When people say radical islam, never forget

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

OME, good luck with that. For better or worse we suck up external cultures - perhaps because we're not a homogenous population with thousands of years of heritage to call our own.

 

What should Australian culture look like? Australian cuisine? I don't want to offend anyone, but Gallipoli and the birth of the Anzac legend was over 100 years ago. Crocodile Dundee may have been popular in the 80's but most of Australia's population, me included, have never even seen the Outback.

 

I don't know that I agree with you about the amount of violence on kid's TV. Our kids watch a host of shows with no violence and even (shock horror!) some educational and scientific content - Playschool, Sesame St, Mr Maker, Octonauts, Fireman Sam etc etc. In fact I reckon you could sit your kid from toddler to 8-year old in front of ABC2 and be confident that they're not copping any violence whatsoever.

 

Of course when they get a bit older and start watching stuff on Netflix then yes, some of it'll be violence-based. I would argue that it probably always has been, and probably worse than today.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Marty,

 

Very few people aware aware of what media their kids consume. Yes, I respect that you are more careful than most. However, sadly, the majority just give their kids the remote (and the mouse).

 

I share OME's concern. This generation of desensitised kids will soon be our politicians, generals and businessmen.

 

 

[old man emu]

I share OME's concern. This generation of desensitised kids will soon be our politicians, generals and businessmen.

Pete,

 

The problem is not with our kids who will inherit the future. You and I have been subjected to this and suffer the effects. Your generation and mine have learned the dangers of smoking, drug taking and alcohol abuse. We pass on that knowledge to the next generation by warning the young ones not to repeat our mistakes.

 

Marty,

 

Why can't we tell the USA that we don't want their violent, hypocritical society? Haven't we got the national balls to stand up and say things like that, or has political correctness overcome our survival instincts?

 

What do I see as being the essentials of a true Australian culture? Firstly, the ability to reject the use of violence as the way to assert our opinions. Secondly, the ability to accept anyone into our society who is willing to pull their own weight and act fairly in all things. Thirdly, to the ability to accept that each of us is basically a racist, but, like an recovering alcoholic or drug addict to take steps to control one's racism.

 

OME

 

 

[nomadpete]

OME

 

It does matter what the next generation think.

 

I take your point to Marty about our 'national gonads' . Don't hold your breath waiting for a strong Australian statesman to appear at the head. Historically Australia has always cow tailed to USA and mother England. We are a small power in a big world and we are beholden to bigger powers. Also, our politicians are in the pockets of the big business interests of the wider world. So it is unlikely that our leaders will act decisively in the interests of Australians any time soon.

 

End of cynical rant

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty,

 

Why can't we tell the USA that we don't want their violent, hypocritical society? Haven't we got the national balls to stand up and say things like that, or has political correctness overcome our survival instincts?

Short answer, no, we don't have the balls.

 

But I'd also hasten to add that not everything that comes out of the US is violent and/or hypocritical. There's a wealth of cinema, literature and art from the US that's of considerable value to society.

 

In the end though, the market decides. If people want American products then one way or another, they'll get them.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

OME one solution

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

It's not the market that decides.

 

Business calls the shots on what we get,

 

Video: VHS versus Betta, after the war of words it was admitted the looser was the better system.

 

Leyland P76 was deemed a great car after its loss. same with the Valiant slant 6, (Mafia staff car).

 

Heaps more for the searcher.s.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Yenn]

It's not the average Aussie who cow tows to the US, it is our top politicians. They run behind the USA sniffing asses and prostrating themselves. Just look at our military expenditure. We buy the latest and greates from the US without any thought about its suitability. Nor any thought about why we are buying it.

 

Most of the problems of the current world seem to be Muslim strikes with suicide bombers or something similar. What use is a top of the range fighter plane or a submarine for that type of war?

 

 

[Marty_d]

It's not the average Aussie who cow tows to the US, it is our top politicians. They run behind the USA sniffing asses and prostrating themselves. Just look at our military expenditure. We buy the latest and greates from the US without any thought about its suitability. Nor any thought about why we are buying it.Most of the problems of the current world seem to be Muslim strikes with suicide bombers or something similar. What use is a top of the range fighter plane or a submarine for that type of war?

Careful Yenn... if the defense procurement generals couldn't get wined & dined by Lockheed Martin / Raytheon etc and then recommend these shiny new toys to the government, well... well... the rich shareholders of weapons systems manufacturers wouldn't get their dividends, would they!? Are you seriously suggesting that these poor people should not buy another holiday house in the south of France this year?? You would limit these poor society ladies to only 150 pairs of high-end shoes?

 

Bloody commie.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Where IS that 'cynic' emoticon?

 

 

[spacesailor]

Who likes S,F.

 

Gene Roddenberry, of Star Wars fame, Why is it Australia cannot get to see his last creation, Andromeda, it's only a tv series but never in Australia!.

 

We all know the leading man, Kevin Sorbo, from Zena Warrior Princess Princess.

 

Do you think it's the public or the business controlling us.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

I don't know that I agree with you about the amount of violence on kid's TV. Our kids watch a host of shows with no violence and even (shock horror!) some educational and scientific content - Playschool, Sesame St, Mr Maker, Octonauts, Fireman Sam etc etc. In fact I reckon you could sit your kid from toddler to 8-year old in front of ABC2 and be confident that they're not copping any violence whatsoever.

So, to ensure that the young bloke isn't radicalised by USA-produced media violence I have to put the parent lock on my Foxtel? That sure would prevent his watching that violent muck, but what about the thousands of other kids who are soaking it up?

 

As further fuel to the debate, I wandered into an digital games retailer's shop today. Apart from the odd sports based games, the rest of the hundreds of games on sale relied heavily on violence or lawlessness as the basis of their story lines. Screen shots on the covers consistently displayed steroid enhanced characters wielding incredibly huge firearms, or dark, sinister, pseudo- medieval war lords.

 

There are two bon mots we should be considering in this debate:

 

Aristotle, the Greek philosopher said:

 

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”

 

and:

 

“As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.” It's a trite, but nonetheless powerful, axiom that was originated in 1734 by Alexander Pope as “Just as the twig is bent, the tree's inclined.”

 

 

 

OME

 

 

[SDQDI]

OME do you like teaching infants nursery rhymes? I always enjoyed them as a kid but seriously how messed up are they!? Humpty Dumpty, rock a bye baby, jack and Jill and the list goes on of short stories that have a nice rhyme but content that makes you wonder what the author was thinking when they wrote them.

 

 

[octave]

As further fuel to the debate, I wandered into an digital games retailer's shop today. Apart from the odd sports based games, the rest of the hundreds of games on sale relied heavily on violence or lawlessness as the basis of their story lines. Screen shots on the covers consistently displayed steroid enhanced characters wielding incredibly huge firearms, or dark, sinister, pseudo- medieval war lords.

Whilst I am sure there are many popular violent PC games, I would just like to point out that there are a huge number of educational non violent games. Perhaps walking around a games retailer could give a skewed view as perhaps some games are better for shelf display purposes. The vast majority of games are not sold in retailers but on line though "Steam" etc. I am not saying that there are not many games that involve violence but it is rather skewed to suggest that " Apart from the odd sports based games, the rest of the hundreds of games on sale relied heavily on violence...." is probably a bit of an exaggeration.

 

Games are like books, there are books that are gratuitously violent or perhaps violent but with a message (Shakespeare maybe?) as well more productive literature.

 

I am not a massive gamer myself, most of my knowledge comes from my son who founded a games development company which produces a fantastic game based on automotive engineering. He is also a board member of the Independent Games developers association so he is quite aware of the range of games being produced.

 

Not trying to have an argument with you but I just get a bit sick of stereotypes.

 

cheers

 

 

[old man emu]

but it is rather skewed to suggest that " Apart from the odd sports based games, the rest of the hundreds of games on sale relied heavily on violence...." is probably a bit of an exaggeration.

That was a statement of the observation I made whilst in the store (which was a well known electronic games chain store). That particular chain is represented in very many of the major retail centres, so it is fair to make the logical conclusion that the majority of games available for sale in these stores have a very high degree of violent content.

 

Games are like books, there are books that are gratuitously violent or perhaps violent but with a message (Shakespeare maybe?) as well more productive literature.

Accepted. But I have read many books with exciting storylines that did not rely almost exclusively on their violent content to carry a story line. Unfortunately, youngsters nowadays do not appear to have the patience to respond to anything other than narratives presented as visual stimuli. I'm not demanding that they immerse themselves in what we might call the "classics". There is a wealth of fine contemporary literature which can be recreational or didactic.

 

Not trying to have an argument with you but I just get a bit sick of stereotypes.

To which stereotypes, relevant to this discussion, are you referring?

 

OME

 

 

[Marty_d]

So, to ensure that the young bloke isn't radicalised by USA-produced media violence I have to put the parent lock on my Foxtel? That sure would prevent his watching that violent muck, but what about the thousands of other kids who are soaking it up?

As further fuel to the debate, I wandered into an digital games retailer's shop today. Apart from the odd sports based games, the rest of the hundreds of games on sale relied heavily on violence or lawlessness as the basis of their story lines. Screen shots on the covers consistently displayed steroid enhanced characters wielding incredibly huge firearms, or dark, sinister, pseudo- medieval war lords.

 

There are two bon mots we should be considering in this debate:

 

Aristotle, the Greek philosopher said:

 

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”

 

and:

 

“As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.” It's a trite, but nonetheless powerful, axiom that was originated in 1734 by Alexander Pope as “Just as the twig is bent, the tree's inclined.”

 

 

 

OME

The world is full of sh*t we don't want our kids to see or be affected by. Hell, with the Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse, domestic violence, murders, terrorism and Donald Trump, I don't even want mine watching the news or listening to the radio. This is where parenting comes in. If people want to hand their kid the remote, or give them an Ipad and don't supervise or control what they do with it, then in my humble opinion they're neglecting some parental duties. I know it's easy for me to say with all 3 under 9 at the moment, and it's going to get a lot harder, and karma will probably kick me in the ass for saying it, but that's what I think.

 

My 8 year old son went to a friend's place for a sleepover recently. His mate and him woke up earlier than the parents, and his mate put a movie on for them to watch - World War Z. Needless to say my son had nightmares for a week afterwards - we were not impressed that his mate had access to MA15+ videos, and thought it appropriate to share them.

 

OME do you like teaching infants nursery rhymes? I always enjoyed them as a kid but seriously how messed up are they!? Humpty Dumpty, rock a bye baby, jack and Jill and the list goes on of short stories that have a nice rhyme but content that makes you wonder what the author was thinking when they wrote them.

Not to mention Hansel and Gretel.

 

Childhood itself is a relatively recent phenomenon. In the past when kids were 5 or 6 they were often put to work, sometimes in appalling conditions (think mining where the kids were sent down shafts too small for adults). Also often subject to real violence and abuse. When you set the modern day problems of video & gaming content of fake violence (and kids often understand the difference) against that, I don't think the problem is a huge one.

 

 

[old man emu]

Marty_d and SDQDI have both agreed that there is much violent content in what we make available to our children. We must concede that Homo sapiens has a naturally violent disposition, developed, no doubt, as a survival mechanism before the species developed societal living. As we enter the eighth millennium of that type of existence we should be looking towards curbing that disposition by eliminating the indoctrination of our children with the same concepts. As I said earlier, "As the twig is bent, so grows the tree".

 

It cannot be argued that this is an impossibility. Marty_d alluded to child exploitation in industry. We were able to eliminate that. We eliminated illiteracy by providing universal education. We are battling now to eliminate domestic violence. Homo sapiens society is capable of doing anything it sets its mind to. I'm suggesting that the Australian branch should set its goal as the elimination of the indoctrination of our children to violence by the rejection of the mores and customs of the United States of America branch.

 

OME

 

 

[Bruce]

Good onyer OME. You are quite right but I don't reckon enough of the public will care.

 

There was a serious test of Australian vs American culture in the Japanese prison camps of WW2.

 

The " look after your mate" Australians survived better than the " strong silent individual" Americans.

 

 

[old man emu]

I don't think the Americans ran on the "strong, silent individual" path. Their attitude seems to be "I'm alright, Jack. F..k you."

 

 

[Marty_d]

Hmmm... very anti-US there OME!

 

I must say that all the Americans I've met were very polite. Of course we can abhor their gun culture and war-mongering, but from a population of 350 million or so I'm sure the majority are nice, normal people.

 

 

[old man emu]

Very anti-US culture, for sure. Yes, anti gun culture and war mongering. Yes, individually they are nice normal people. It's the gun culture, war mongering propaganda I want banned from Australia.

 

OME

 

 

[spacesailor]

As for violent book's.

 

The first book was really violent, I refer of course to the story of the "crucifixion" in the bible.

 

Very young children were endentured to their employer for a number of years, chimney sweeps were usually dead before their apprenticeship finished, Cadet coal miners stayed under-ground, for years at a time.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Worse things in the bible than that, there is the story about Lot throwing his daughters out of the house to be gang-raped by a mob.

 

I have read that in China you have to buy the bible at x-rated shops. Bex might know, but then again he might not go to such shops or there might not be one handy for him.