turboplanner Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 and you went to water with your promised report on mitochondrial DNA (#2154) that was supposed to blow evolutionary biology as we know it out of the water. - still waiting. and you'll be waiting until I get interested and get enough time to do the research it deserves - doesn't alter its validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 and you'll be waiting until I get interested and get enough time to do the research it deserves - doesn't alter its validity. But Turbs, you need to get onto this, every year you delay another group graduates from The University of Melbourne - Science Faculty degree course in Evolutionary Biology (and from every other Uni that teaches modern science). You will be doing humanity a great service with your research and I am sure after publishing and peer review you can expect a call from the Noble prize people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Gnu, you seem to think that atheists are overly sure of themselves, think they have the answers, are smug and superior. "Why are we here" is not an answerable question - and I don't care anyway. The question of Gods are merely a source of bemusement, I wouldn't call it an intellectual debate by any means (no disrespect meant to some of the interesting history presented). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 We are here because we are. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 You will be doing humanity a great service with your research and I am sure after publishing and peer review you can expect a call from the Noble prize people Would they be from that University of Melbourne Octave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 We are here because we are. Nev What's interesting will be if life exists elsewhere. There are 2 schools of thought on this... either the universe is fecund and life springs up whenever the conditions are right, or it's only happened here - once. Now that SETI has had a substantial cash injection they may have the opportunity to pursue new methods of research, such as determining if life established itself here on Earth more than once. If that's the case, then the likelihood is it's happened on other goldilocks planets too. As for intelligent life... hope it's happened elsewhere, 'cos there ain't much down here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 How about giving us all a list of places that embody atheist utopia? I'm only aware of all the awful ones. My "bullsh*t" comment was directed at your line "If you hold to no higher moral authority than yourself and a dogma of survival of the fittest you spawn brutality." It's BS because accepted moral standards change over time. Slavery? Once accepted (including in your bible). Slaughter of "witches", gays, different tribes? Once encouraged (including in your bible). Domestic violence? The term didn't even exist until recently, as it was generally accepted that wife and children were property of the man, to do with what he would. Every black-robed jihadi in ISIS thinks he's holding to a "higher moral authority". In christianity the priests have always been held as a higher moral authority, and look what they got up to. The only moral authority you have is yourself. It's called humanity, and it doesn't need anything "higher". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 The following may not have much to do with Aviation but at least it's a lot funnier than anything I've read here for a while. (Warning Gnarly, sinning below) The only way to pull off a Sunday afternoon 'quick bout of love making' with their 8-year old son in the apartment was to send him out on the balcony with a Mars Bar and tell him to report on all the Street activities. He began his commentary as his parents put their plan into operation: 'There's a car being towed from the parking lot,' he shouted. 'An ambulance just drove by!' 'Looks like the Anderson 's have company,' he called out. 'Matt's riding a new bike!' 'Looks like the Sanders are moving! 'Jason is on his skate board!' After a few moments he announced, 'The Coopers are having a root!' Startled, his mum and dad shot up in bed! Dad cautiously called out, 'How do you know that?' 'Jimmy Cooper is standing on his balcony with a Mars Bar.' 'There's a car being towed from the parking lot,' he shouted. 'An ambulance just drove by!' 'Looks like the Anderson 's have company,' he called out. 'Matt's riding a new bike!' 'Looks like the Sanders are moving! 'Jason is on his skate board!' After a few moments he announced, 'The Coopers are having a root!' Startled, his mum and dad shot up in bed! Dad cautiously called out, 'How do you know that?' 'Jimmy Cooper is standing on his balcony with a Mars Bar.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sounds pretty tense Maybe in tense. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sounds pretty tense Maybe in tense. Nev You can't "run" through a camping ground, you can only "ran" because it's past tents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Like the bloke seeing the psychiatrist. "Doc! You gotta help me! Sometimes I think I'm a tipi, other times I think I'm a yurt!" "That's easy sir... you're two tents!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearo Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid. ― Christopher Hitchens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Not so much about Atheist humour but has at least an aviation tinge. Airborne approximately thirty minutes on an outbound evening flight from Glasgow, the lead flight attendant for the cabin crew nervously made the following painful announcement..: "Ladies and gentlemen, I'm so very sorry but it appears that there has been a terrible mix up one minute prior to take off, by our airport catering service... I don't know how this has happened but we have 103 passengers on board and, unfortunately, only 40 dinner meals... I truly apologise for this mistake and inconvenience." When passengers' muttering had died down, she continued.. , "Anyone who is kind enough to give up their meal so that someone else can eat will receive free, unlimited drinks for the duration of our 5 hour flight." Her next announcement came 90 minutes later... "If anyone would like to change their minds, we still have 40 dinners available." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 A man was sitting in an airport bar when a statuesque blonde walks in and sits on the next stool. Her walk, her straight back, pony tail and make up being a dead giveaway that she was a Stewardess. The man feeling brave after a few decides to get friendly, not knowing which airline she worked for he thought guessing that would make a clever opening ... "Something special in the air .....?" (American Airlines). No response. "We love to fly and it shows .....?" (Delta Airlines). No response. Hmm he thinks, "Making the sky the best place on Earth?" (Air France). He gets a slight glare out the corner of her eye. "Well take more care of you?" (British Airways) She glares at him with a very annoyed look. "I'm not happy till you're happy?" (Canadian Airlines). She snaps back at him: "Look A'hole, what the F*&^ do you want?" ... The man replies;............. "Oh, Scottish Air!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 If she was nearing retirement age... Qantas. If she'd just left college... Virgin. Please pardon the entirely unintentional pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Atheists can be bad people. Believers can be good people. People with red hair can be bad people. People with bushy beards can be good people. Short people can be bad people. Fat people can be good people. Smart people can be bad people. Thick people can be good people. Women can be bad people. Men can be good people. The reverse of each of the statements is equally true. Conclusion? People can be good or bad. Here is an interesting question: how do you define "good" or "bad" unless you have a yardstick to do so? An ever-shifting situational ethics scenario cannot work to define something as definite as "good" or "bad". What is "good" with, say, radical Moslems (kill all who do not agree with Islam, etc.) will be seen as "bad" by Christians, Buddhist and Atheists. The only yardstick that has been around for a very long time is the Ten Commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In very recent times in Northern Ireland, protestants and catholics killed each other because of what the other believed/didn't believe. The 100 years war raged for the same reason. It seems now that the Christians have outgrown this right is might unless you consider the killings in the USA by fundamentalist, born-agains of anyone who breaks the Abrahamic laws. What is happening now in the Sunni/Shia conflicts in Yemen, Syria and Iraq is no different to the intra-Christian sectarian violence or the pogroms of Christian killing Jews by the millions because they were the "wrong" branch of the Abrahamic religion. And in Israel now we see an awful lot of Jews killing Muslims (and vice versa) because of hatred of a branch of the Abrahamic religion. I just wish they'd all grow up and mind their own business and stop looking over other people's shoulder to see how they are worshipping the same God. Pathetic childish, ignorant, nonsense. Whilever Islam, requires the death of non-believers, Muslims who have abandoned Islam and anyone who criticises anything to do with Islam it can never justify calling itself the "religion of peace". It is one of many religions which are utterly intolerant of a different view of our existence. Christian religions relied on scripture to require its followers to accept that the Sun rotated around the Earth and burned people at the stake who disagreed. Only recently, they finally apologised to Galileo but still have the ashes of Giordano Bruno littering the Campo de' Fiori in the shadow of St Peters Basilica. What an utter disgrace! Roman Catholicism tried everything to keep the Bible away from lay people's hands, even to the point of burning the Bibles (as well as their owners at times) in order to keep people in the dark. GG is correct. It was the Pope of Rome who declared Galileo to be wrong, not other 'brands' of Christianity because Bible readers would have noticed that the Bible mentions a non-flat earth scenario: see Isaiah 40: 22. By the way, the "sun-revolves-around-the-earth concept was first propounded by a non-Christian: Plato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The only yardstick that has been around for a very long time is the Ten Commandments. The ten commandments have not been around that long compared to the entirety of human history (unless you are a believer in the 6000-year thing). The question is did people kill their own people in a large scale way BEFORE the Old Testament. Not killing your own kind does not really need any kind of commandment, it is just an essential, to ensure the survival of the group. I am not a Christian (or believer in God) but I could not kill anyone for the following reasons: 1) My sense of empathy would mean that I would be caused considerable mental pain by imagining the pain suffered by my victim, also the pain and grief I would cause their family and friends. 3) There is a societal deal we make with each other, I won't kill you if you won't kill me, this by and large works well, other than violent acts carried out by aberrant members of society. 3) It is against the secular law, I don't want to go to jail. Mostly higher animals do not kill members of their own group, they don't need a set of commandments it is just that survival of the group is more likely by ensuring the survival of the individual. anyway back to the humour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Here is an interesting question: how do you define "good" or "bad" unless you have a yardstick to do so? An ever-shifting situational ethics scenario cannot work to define something as definite as "good" or "bad". What is "good" with, say, radical Moslems (kill all who do not agree with Islam, etc.) will be seen as "bad" by Christians, Buddhist and Atheists. The only yardstick that has been around for a very long time is the Ten Commandments. Well, let's start with the 10 commandments. The first 5 are all about god, so in effect have no meaning at all. Then there's one about honouring your parents. That's not valid in all cases, I'm sure someone who was abandoned as a baby because their parents didn't want them won't need that one. Don't kill. That's a good one in general. Exceptions of course are self defense, protecting innocents, euthanasia, abortion, and probably a few others I can't think of right now. Don't steal. Also good in general, but justifiable in some situations - stealing food if starving for instance. Adultery? Not even a law in secular society - what people do with their own bodies is up to them. Just on a moral point - say you're young, married and your partner has suffered a brain injury, living in full time care, will never know who you are again. You're supposed to refrain from sex for the rest of your/their life? Then there's a couple about not coveting your neighbour's wife's ass or something. Now I can't speak for women, but as a red blooded male, that just seems to be entirely opposite to the natural urges of biology. So: out of the 10 there's 2 that are good in most circumstances (killing and stealing). The others are entirely useless or have valid exemptions. The interesting question of how you define "good" or "bad" - generally speaking the yardstick is a mix of common human empathy (as mentioned by Don above), societal expectations, socio-economic grouping, and secular law which (again generally speaking) is a reflection of the community's attitudes. There is a huge range of human behaviours ranging from the truly repulsive (crimes against children etc) to the truly wonderful (volunteers with organisations such as MSF putting their own lives in danger to save others). In general terms I think that if you took a range of acts and asked people from different backgrounds, communities and language to place them on that scale, the majority would put them pretty much in the same spot as other people. In short... you have a brain, a conscience, empathy, and a knowledge of the rule of law. I don't see what need anyone would have for the 10 commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Let's face it, 10 commandments are a lot easier to remember than the 613 Hebrew commandments that were proclaimed a long long time before the J.C. Story started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 But then again as someone said earlier, you could make it even easier by having just one minimalist commandment - "don't be an a55hole" has some appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 - what people do with their own bodies is up to them. That's what I tried to tell them at the Cinema while watching that Kim Bassinger movie .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That's what I tried to tell them at the Cinema while watching that Kim Bassinger movie ....[/QUOT Bex, where's the secular knowledge in that post? Isn't that what this thread is all about? I mean, if you keep drifting off like this , we'll end up with thousands of off beat contributions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's the neighbours's wife, or his ass. Covetting is wanting to own plus a bit of envy. Both are possessions in the example probably of roughly equal value at the time. Lusting is probably your problem with you neighbour's wifeys ass. That can be serious. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's the neighbours's wife, or his ass. Oh shlt! Not the "same sex" marriage rigmarole in this thread, too? OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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