Atheist knowledge

[Gnarly Gnu]

Thanks GG, that explains a lot.1. Pull the pin and roll one in.

 

2. Run away without being bothered by the logic of the reply.

 

3. Come back later when the dust has settled and roll in another one.

 

4. Faith intact, go to 1.

Hey Don, my faith is in no way fragile - on the hand grenade analogy I just toss them right back. But most are fizzers so I tend not to bother with them.

 

Regarding your comment in #1800 above - no it honestly does not remind me of anyone at all. You think it should? I'm not aware of anyone that looks like this, but I would like to give him a haircut.

 

Update: maybe Guy Penrod?

 

 

Great singer, scruffy hippy.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Gnarly, Gnarly, Gnarly . . . will you never give up on trying to make non-believers into believers in not believing?

 

Can't you ever see the illogicality of saying Atheism is a belief system?

 

Can you not concede that Evolution is a Scientific Theory not an hypothesis or are you so uneducated that you don't know the difference? You don't have to accept the Scientific Theory you just can't logically deny that Scientists have accepted it as a Scientific Theory.

 

Can you give me the address of one Church of Atheism meeting on a Sunday?

 

" life has no meaning or purpose and there will be no future judgement of their actions"

 

Atheists have more purpose in this life because it is the only one they have.

 

They won't be judged in the next life but there are plenty of uncharitable Christians prepared to give summary judgement in this life.

 

"fundamental atheists are very intolerant" only of God Botherers claiming tax exemptions because of their imaginary friend.

 

"lack of science beneath your core belief in Darwinian evolution" that's been done to death and the creationists keep losing even in the immensely perverted logic of the Bible belt of the USA. Give it up Gnarly, the evangelicals have lost that one and just make themselves look medieval by clinging to the creationist pseudo-science.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

[ATTACH]47543._xfImport[/ATTACH] Who the hell is Guy Penrod?

 

No resemblance?

 

[ATTACH]47542._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[rgmwa]

Don, despite your best efforts at offering scientific enlightenment, it's pretty clear by now that GG is a lost cause when it comes to logic and reason, and is probably beyond salvation.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Don we know from scripture that Jesus Christ (who it seems you are inferring) did not have long hair, your thinking is distorted by your Roman Catholic upbringing. To me the pictures are a couple of hippies.

 

Don, despite your best efforts at offering scientific enlightenment, it's pretty clear by now that GG is a lost cause when it comes to logic and reason

If referring to Darwinian evolution theory you haven't offered any scientific enlightenment rg. You folk cling to this one so desperately, I'm just pointing out the emperors lack of clothes - no evidence of DNA being added, no mechanism to even do this, no example of one species transitioning into another, no example of abiogensis or how that might ever happen, no reason as to why the 2nd law of thermodynamics must be inverted when considering this theory but not for anything else - the list goes on and on. Instead of throwing in one sentence why don't you start by explaining to us the use of partially formed sex organs and how they became functional over time for example? And with examples?

 

 

[rgmwa]

Heard it all before Gnu....and I can't be bothered getting into the same old debate that will go nowhere. Believe what you like and I'll do the same.

 

rgmwa

 

PS. I didn't actually say anything about Darwinian evolution, but just to be clear ... I believe that the Theory of Evolution is a working hypothesis.

 

 

[octave]

Yes atheists find comfort by faith in their belief that life has no meaning or purpose and there will be no future judgement of their actions.

[

 

You seem to know a lot about atheists. It is breathtakingly arrogant for you to suggest that my life has no meaning. Yes it is true, without a belief in god my life is empty and meaningless all I have left is the love of my family and friends, art, literature, music theater, the beauty of the natural world, history, science, sex, the cosmos, mountains, oceans, clouds and the joy of a session of touch and go's - that is enough for me.

 

As far as future judgement goes, I lead a good life not because of some future judgement but because of the present judgment of my friends, family, my society, and most importantly my own conscience.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The crazy thing here is you have a bunch of logical arguers arguing with people who have abandoned reason in favour of belief.Being able to suspend credulity is a good thing otherwise the Goon show (inter alia) would have not been so brilliantly surreal. Drama would have no purpose.

 

A temporary suspension of credulity is one thing but basing your whole life on belief in a particular, unverifiable mythology - living in a world of make believe - would have seen you locked up if the nut houses weren't run by co-believers.

 

Most ordinary, sensible people you meet think Scientologists are all certifiable because of what they believe to be real. Their mythology is gobsmackingly obviously less than improbable. But, if you look closely at their belief system it is no more incredulous than that of pretty well any religious mythology - take your pick (Egyptian, Zarathustran, Greek, Roman, Norse . . . At least they don't have to resort to the ". . . works in mysterious ways" excuse to explain the truly ridiculous parts of their mythology like the Abrahamic religions do.

 

Speaking of Zarathustra, I though you might like to see an image thereof.

 

[ATTACH=full]34024[/ATTACH]

 

Remind you of anyone?

 

As the scribes wrote in Ecclesiastes 1-4-11 "אין כל חדש תחת השמש" a rough translation:

 

“ . . . there is no new thing under the sun.” What they left off was so why not copy it?

Logical arguers, look at this tripe Roflmao. You should be on the stage.

 

 

[octave]

I'm just pointing out the emperors lack of clothes - no evidence of DNA being added, no mechanism to even do this, no example of one species transitionin

You keep saying this. You want one example of a transitional species - archaeoptryx - http://www.livescience.com/24745-archaeopteryx.html If you want more examples then make the effort do some reading, at the very least it may improve the quality of your argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

 

I really don't care if you accept the evidence or not but it is quite dishonest to suggest that the standard mo0del of biology has been discredited. Can I ask you how you came to this notion. I know for a fact that Evolution is still taught as the foundation of the biological sciences.

 

Now if you are saying yes it is still the current theory but it is wrong then that is a different matter, but I would love to see the evidence.

 

 

[octave]

Logical arguers, look at this tripe Roflmao. You should be on the stage.

 

Perhaps we should examine some of this "tripe" I would hate to think that I had posted illogical "tripe" so feel free to draw my attention to any "tripe" I might have posted.

 

 

[facthunter]

What is the point of all this? I thank the people who gave a lot of their private thoughts over what is now 1800 + posts. I have had many believing friends in a lifetime, but there is not much point exchanging views with some who show no respect for your situation or views or can run an "honest approach" argument. Gnu started out ridiculing Atheistists in a very insulting way, and has not wavered one bit. Much of what he has said is grossly offensive is one bothered to be bothered. It is only possible to be upset by some one who you respect, so the answer is there.

 

All this effort has proven is HALF of what I have always advocated applies on this forum.

 

Leave RELIGION and POLITICS out of it and we will all get along better. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...don't you love atheists, they just can't stop looking over the fence and carping about believers.

I'll bite Turbs. Who says I'm an atheist? I'm trying to use my (God-given ?) brain here. I know many religious people. Some of them I hold in high regard. I try to respect their faith and particularly respect those that keep it to themselves. The problems start when faith makes people do dumb things; or evil things.

 

When faith becomes a risk to the safety of people and the security of the nation should we remain silent?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Perhaps we should examine some of this "tripe" I would hate to think that I had posted illogical "tripe" so feel free to draw my attention to any "tripe" I might have posted.

Sorry, I caught the Facthunter disease and didn't reference my post back to the specific post of Don.

 

As far as evolution goes it's an unproven theory which you have to prove. I haven't got around to my study on mitochondrial DNA, but basically if we start with current humans and go back to an amoeba in a swamp and all have that magic DNA component then they evolved, but if the DNA link doesn't go back beyond current humans the theory will be bunk.

 

 

[octave]

As far as evolution goes it's an unproven theory which you have to prove.

I think that since evolution is the current theory taught in universities all over the world and accepted by the vast majority of scientists that the burden of proof is the other way round.

 

I am never sure whether you are saying that sometime in the past the theory of evolution has been overturned and it is just some outdated idea? If so this is demonstratively untrue.

 

Perhaps you are suggesting that it is still taught and accepted but new evidence is about to be presented that will blow it out of the water.

 

but basically if we start with current humans and go back to an amoeba

Just to be clear here, we did not evolve from amoebas but rather we share at some point a common ancestor.

 

 

[horsefeathers]

If referring to Darwinian evolution theory you haven't offered any scientific enlightenment rg. You folk cling to this one so desperately, I'm just pointing out the emperors lack of clothes - no evidence of DNA being added, no mechanism to even do this, no example of one species transitioning into another, no example of abiogensis or how that might ever happen, no reason as to why the 2nd law of thermodynamics must be inverted when considering this theory but not for anything else - the list goes on and on. Instead of throwing in one sentence why don't you start by explaining to us the use of partially formed sex organs and how they became functional over time for example? And with examples?

 

here ya go GG ( and turbo could have a quick read as well) - proof of DNA transfer across multi-cellular organisms. I know its not in the Bible ( or indeed any religious text, probably), but please read it, and understand that it doesn't conflict with your religious views. This is just the way the world is.

 

Confirmation That Photosynthesizing Sea Slugs Steal Genes From Algae

 

http://io9.com/confirmation-that-photosynthesizing-sea-slugs-steal-gen-1683702602

 

 

[turboplanner]

I should have waited and presented the results of my research. A recent publication mentioned a monkey which had DNA " very similar to a human". Without the mitochondrial it isn't part of the human species.

 

If the sea slugs and the algae share that critical DNA then one evolved from the other. If nor, they are not related. Today we are able to move on from "looking for similarities" to digitally removing all doubt.

 

Octave, those schools are out of date and I'd question your assertions about those Universities, however O know some people take a couple of decades to catch up because I was going to post post some good visual Egyptian photos but there were the old myths of civilisation being 6000 years old, Great Pyramid being built 4000 years ago bu Khafre etc

 

 

[octave]

I'd question your assertions about those Universities,

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/degree-finder/bsc_bscevbiol.html

 

Bachelor of Science (Evolutionary Biology)

 

2015 2015 2014 2013 2012

 

CampusNorth Terrace Campus

 

Degree TypeBachelor

 

Duration3 years full-timeor part-time equiv.

 

SATAC Code324281

 

2014

 

ATAR79.85

 

Evolutionary Biology involves the study of information contained in living plants and animals and their fossils to determine how they evolved. This knowledge assists in understanding biodiversity and planning for its conservation. The program provides access to South Australian Museum staff and collections and is unique in South Australia. It is designed to deliver internationally competitive training.

 

this was the first of many links to uni degree courses teaching evolutionary biology.

 

. A recent publication mentioned a monkey which had DNA " very similar to a human". Without the mitochondrial it isn't part of the human species.

not quite sure what you mean here, chimps and humans share 96% of the same genes so "very similar" yep

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just to be clear here, we did not evolve from amoebas but rather we share at some point a common ancestor.

That's a stunning admission for an evolutionist, and my bet is the ancestor is Homo Erectus Erectus

 

 

[Bikky]

Yes atheists find comfort by faith in their belief that life has no meaning or purpose and there will be no future judgement of their actions.

Oh dear! Back to square one again ... My life has meaning and purpose - I try to do the right thing for my own peace of mind and because it 's part of my personal philosophy, NOT for some imaginary reward in the afterlife.

 

I can't imagine that the world would be a worse place if more did the same.

 

Be a good boy and Santa will leave you a present. Yeah, sure!

 

Being good for the sake of being good seems far less selfish to me.

 

Don't have a god, don't want one and I don't need one.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Logical arguers, look at this tripe Roflmao. You should be on the stage.

Turbo you should be very careful of roflmao - not only could you end up assess but at your elevated seniority you might find it impossible to get up.

 

 

[octave]

That's a stunning admission for an evolutionist, and my bet is the ancestor is Homo Erectus Erectus

 

what is a stunning admission?

 

You may have to clarify, it sounds like you are saying that the common ancestor that humans an amoebas share is homo erectus erectus?????? Surely this is not what you are saying? My point is that the amoeba and humans share a common ancestor who lived in the distant past, and who is not alive today. This is like how you and your cousin share a grandparent. Your cousin is not your grandparent. The amoeba that exists today is not the organism we descended from. The amoeba that exists today comes from a lineage that has been evolving for just as long as humans have been evolving, only the forces of natural selection have caused them to remain relatively simple and superficially similar to their distant ancestors.

 

This is not a stunning admission this is what the theory suggests.

 

 

[Marty_d]

What is the point of all this? I thank the people who gave a lot of their private thoughts over what is now 1800 + posts. I have had many believing friends in a lifetime, but there is not much point exchanging views with some who show no respect for your situation or views or can run an "honest approach" argument. Gnu started out ridiculing Atheistists in a very insulting way, and has not wavered one bit. Much of what he has said is grossly offensive is one bothered to be bothered. It is only possible to be upset by some one who you respect, so the answer is there.All this effort has proven is HALF of what I have always advocated applies on this forum.

 

Leave RELIGION and POLITICS out of it and we will all get along better. Nev

That's all true Nev, but discussing the big issues - in a respectful way of course - makes life more interesting.

 

 

[Geoff13]

So am I an Atheist.?

 

1. I do not believe there is a God.

 

2. I do not believe in Jesus Christ, Mohammad Buddha or any of those mythical creatures.

 

3. I do believe that there is a higher power.

 

4. I believe that power can be defined as our conscience.

 

5. I believe that it (our conscience) comes from our ancestors and those who have taught and defined us.

 

6. So my gods are my ancestors.

 

Just wondering if any of those so called christians think this makes me an atheist or a bad person. Am I going to burn in hell or will I simply be buried and rot away?

 

 

[turboplanner]

what is a stunning admission?

You may have to clarify, it sounds like you are saying that the common ancestor that humans an amoebas share is homo erectus erectus?????? Surely this is not what you are saying? My point is that the amoeba and humans share a common ancestor who lived in the distant past, and who is not alive today. This is like how you and your cousin share a grandparent. Your cousin is not your grandparent. The amoeba that exists today is not the organism we descended from. The amoeba that exists today comes from a lineage that has been evolving for just as long as humans have been evolving, only the forces of natural selection have caused them to remain relatively simple and superficially similar to their distant ancestors.

 

This is not a stunning admission this is what the theory suggests.

The stunning admission is that you now appear to be suggesting that man appeared well down the chain from the earliest single cells of life, rather than evolving from them, which is what we were trying to tell you from the beginning.

 

I only used the word amoeba as a quick example so disregard that - I meant the earliest form of life.

 

The benefit of mitochondrial DNA is that the mitochondria are only inherited from the mother, and they don't recombine.

 

So the mitochondria of your mother will be the same as yours, and the same for your grandmother and all the matriarchical line back to the beginning, which as we both now appear to be saying was well after the days of the simple cell.

 

Hominoids and monkeys may well "Look" like humans, but unless they had that mitochondria, we did not evolve from them.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The stunning admission is that you now appear to be suggesting that man appeared well down the chain from the earliest single cells of life, rather than evolving from them, which is what we were trying to tell you from the beginning.

I only used the word amoeba as a quick example so disregard that - I meant the earliest form of life.

 

The benefit of mitochondrial DNA is that the mitochondria are only inherited from the mother, and they don't recombine.

 

So the mitochondria of your mother will be the same as yours, and the same for your grandmother and all the matriarchical line back to the beginning, which as we both now appear to be saying was well after the days of the simple cell.

 

Hominoids and monkeys may well "Look" like humans, but unless they had that mitochondria, we did not evolve from them.

The reason that other hominids, like monkeys, look like us, is not because we evolved from them - but because we both evolved from a common ancestor. This ancestor is more recent than, say, the common ancestor we share with horses, far more recent than the common ancestor we share with fish and WAY more recent than the common ancestor we share with amoeba.

 

In a few million years, if humanity still exists, they will probably look more different to us than we look to the common human/chimp ancestor.