Survival

[Old Koreelah]

Japanese troops didn't have the luxury of aerial drops and were expected to pretty much live off the land.

 

I believe our boys were ordered to destroy all stores when they had to retreat. Each can of meat was spiked to cause it to rapidly go rancid.  I can imagine hunger-crazed Japanese discovered this the hard way.

 

 

[onetrack]

Old K - Sorry, I've mixed up the location and events of the Japanese officers stories, it was quite a while ago when I read it, so wasn't the Japs on the Kokoda track that I read about, when I was trying to remember the story of snow in PNG.

 

You're correct, the Owen Stanleys aren't high enough to have snow. 

 

Fortunately, I've found the stories again, and the event that I remembered was the Japanese officer relating the Japs retreat from Lae to Kiari - whereby they had to cross the Saruwaged Range - which peaks at 4,121M.

 

There are photos on the 'net, of snow on the Saruwaged Track, and the associated Mount Bangeta, the high point of the Saruwaged Range.

 

The Japs retreating from Lae were mostly half-starved before they left, and the officer relates how they lost 4 in 10 men crossing the Saruwaged Range.

 

The Japanese officer relating the events in PNG during WW2 is the Japanese Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Yoshihara Kane. His entire campaign story is under the "Southern Cross" heading.

 

I'll just link the page I found the mountain range snow story on - it's a joint AWM-Japanese story site, and it's very good. The retreat from Lae is covered in Chapter 11 below, "Enemy at Buso-Nadzab".

 

Chapter 11 - http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/AJRP/AJRP2.nsf/pages/NT0000B26A?openDocument

 

 

[facthunter]

Between 65 and 69 I used to regularly fly POM-LAE on the final leg of a flight originating from Brisbane. Mostly it was VFR If you got going early enough. If the clouds developed you had to go 17,400 for LSALT on the return. I can't recall what it was the other way. I can't ever recall seeing snow or having an icing issue. but it would have to be close. Poteroo will know more. .  I was never based there, but went close. Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

I'll just link the page I found the mountain range snow story on - it's a joint AWM-Japanese story site, and it's very good. The retreat from Lae is covered in Chapter 11 below, "Enemy at Buso-Nadzab".

 

Chapter 11 - http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/AJRP/AJRP2.nsf/pages/NT0000B26A?openDocument

 

It's interesting reading the other side's story. Thanks for posting that.

 

 

[willedoo]

On the subject of survival gear, some years ago a chap told me about yachties stowing empty wine cask bladders aboard to use as possible emergency flotation devices. Not a bad idea as they pack quite small and are easily blown up. You just have to make sure you take empty ones aboard. Having to drink full casks before abandoning ship can lead to bad decision making and dehydration.

 

They're also useful as emergency water storage and pillows if need be.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Goonie bags for safety.

 

I can see the campaign in my mind.

 

You are correct, besides allowing the world "cheap wine and a sailors growth". This Aussie battler is a life saver.

 

Amazing what a simple thing can do when applied to boating.

 

Also does not break when poorly stored.

 

The other big saver is naturally the big beer/fish esky.

 

Hundreds of half drunk Aussies have survived hanging onto a esky. My homemade one will support four holding ropes. It has alloy bubblewrap on the outside and can easily  be seen from the air.  

 

But always wear sunnies, the reflection is a bitch.

 

 

[willedoo]

That's right. I'd forgotten about the eskys. Have never put it to the test, but I'd imagine the average plastic, foam filled esky with the lid off and full of water would still float ok.

 

 

[facthunter]

It will float alright but if you want to check the buoyancy when filled you could calculate it easily. .Calculate volume of sides ends and bottom and multiply by  mass of  water is would displace and deduct the weight of the container from that figure. Not a lot I would suggest but would keep your head above water. Nev

 

 

[Litespeed]

Homebuilt esky is the best, mine has 50 mm sides, a sealing lid and even a waterproof circle hatch in top from a boat. The hatch is awesome. You can access a beer without letting cold out or splashed water in.

 

Sealed up a easy 80-100 kg of buoyancy. Unsealed and open with water approx 20 kg. More than enough for support. 

 

Also big ropes around outside to hang on to easily. Add a closed foam cushion and that works like a lifevest as well.

 

Mind you I always have a proper vest on anyway.

 

Worst case.....cold beer, food and a huge stash hole for fish.

 

Mind you...I would have to really get Murphy onboard for trouble, the boat is a modified sail/row/power boat. It weighs 75kg but has 400 litres of positive buoyancy.  Seats along sides are sealed chambers.

 

I am doing new gunwales and transom for its half century birthday. But will make a version of the Capten collar to stabilise it for a bigger outboard etc. 

 

Boats are fun

 

 

[willedoo]

This clip is footage of one of the two Syrian aircraft shot down by Turkish forces on the weekend. It looks to be a MiG-23 judging by the swept back wings and pointy nose. Is so, the Syrians must have a few of the two seat variants. Both pilots ejected safely.

 

 

In the clip, from 00.56 onward, you can see the dinghy, radio and survival pack hanging on lanyards below the pilots.

 

 

This is a training photograph of the same gear.

 

 

 

The Soviet built seats had two different types of one man dinghy. One is a more conventional open type dinghy; the one in the photo is a PSN-1 where the pilot zips himself into a sealed environment and sits in an upright position. The upper body section is also inflatable: I guess that would keep the dinghy upright when it rolls over. At the front of the dinghy is the inflation CO2 bottle which activates in the air via static lines when the pilot separates from the seat.

 

 

 

 

The pointy thing at the end of the lanyard is the radio set, enclosed in a floating cover. It's also CO2 activated for flotation. The radio has three modes; the emergency beacon mode begins transmitting while still in the air. The pointy end has the antenna inside. It's a segmented, spring loaded, pop up type.

 

 

 

 

The other object at the end of the lanyard is the survival pack.

 

[willedoo]

This clip is footage of one of the two Syrian aircraft shot down by Turkish forces on the weekend. It looks to be a MiG-23 judging by the swept back wings and pointy nose. Is so, the Syrians must have a few of the two seat variants. Both pilots ejected safely.

 

Just an edit to the above post. The aircraft was a Sukhoi Su-24, a two seater swing wing. Looking up the Syrian inventory, they don't have any two seat MiG-23's. Not a very smart thing to do, taking on F-16's with Su-24's.

[willedoo]

Here's a comparison of various pilot ejection seat survival packs:

 

 

U.S.A.F. ACES 2 survival pack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Russian Air Force K-36D survival pack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RAAF Martin Baker MK.14 survival pack.

[onetrack]

And of course, all this survival equipment is well and good, if you've ejected at an adequate height, are still conscious enough to operate the ejection seat, aren't full of bullet holes, and you don't land in a quicksand bog.

[willedoo]

And of course, all this survival equipment is well and good, if you've ejected at an adequate height, are still conscious enough to operate the ejection seat, aren't full of bullet holes, and you don't land in a quicksand bog.

 

Very true, onetrack. Although height wise, things are a lot better these days with zero/zero rocket assisted seats. All you need is to develop a full canopy and for your descent to slow to canopy speed. All well and good if the aircraft attitude allows the rocket pack to take you up and away, but if you fire out at too much sideways angle, you won't have the height and time to get a full canopy.

 

And good point about being conscious enough to pull the handle and initiate. The seats are automated enough that you don't need to be conscious once you leave the cockpit, but if you are not able to pull the handle then it's game over. As you say, combat injuries are another issue. Seats these days are easier to initiate with one hand but the early Martin Baker Mk.1 & 2 seats required two good strong hands.

 

I remember once reading about the equipment issued to the American pilots in Vietnam. The standard issue side arm was the .38 Special calibre M15 S&W revolver. A lot of USAF pilots chose instead to source their own .45 auto 1911's, presumably as they would be a better defence option if they bailed out in unfriendly territory. Somewhere on a forum, I read the comments from a former USN pilot who flew in Vietnam. He said most Navy blokes stuck with the S&W revolver. His reasons were mainly based around their higher risk of ditching in the water. The revolver (double action) was able to be operated single handed if one arm was injured. Assuming a 1911 was carried uncocked in the cockpit, it would require two good hands to rack it in the water (had to edit the word to rack; the automatic swearword editor won't allow the c*ck word). I don't know if Air Force pilots would have carried the autos hammer down on a loaded round; I have my doubts about that.

 

The other point the ex Navy pilot made was that they often loaded the S&W with tracer rounds to use as a backup flare gun if they ditched at night. The principle was, they'd wait till they saw the chopper turn towards them, then aim and fire toward the chopper.

 

Rant over. At least a good break from the corona virus topic.

[willedoo]

Some of this gear is being put to the test at the moment. A Russian Su-27 has gone down in the Black Sea approximately 3am this morning (AEST). An emergency beacon signal was detected which would indicate the pilot ejected. It's still dark there and no more news if the pilot has been located.

 

If he was uninjured and able to get into the dinghy, he would have a good chance of survival in spite of spending a cold night bobbing around. Assuming a routine patrol flight at normal altitude, the pilot would have an open face helmet, so if he was able to get into the dinghy in reasonable time, only his head would get wet. He would be wearing a VMSK-4 or VMSK-4-15 marine rescue suit which has a tight fitting rubber seal around the neck and is designed to spend several hours immersed without too much leakage and hypothermia. Underneath the marine suit is a combination of other suits, one of them being a thermal suit which is made out of thick material much like a sleeping bag. With a bit of luck, he might make it through the night ok and be found in the morning.

 

Out of curiosity, I once weighed all the same gear this pilot would be wearing. The only difference being, I added a HA full face helmet instead of the open face standard helmet. Including everything down to the long johns, it came to well over 20kg.. More than a cement bag in weight.

[willedoo]

Just an update on the missing Su-27 pilot. The aircraft went down in the Black Sea about 50klm. south of Crimea. The pilot ejected and the radio beacon worked ok, but severe weather conditions prevented him from being picked up until the morning. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to get to the dinghy and suffered severe hypothermia. He was flown by helicopter to Simferopol hospital but could not be saved. In good weather he might have had a chance, also if it had occurred in the morning with a window of daylight for rescue instead of approaching night.