Atheist knowledge

[facthunter]

Atheist KNOWLEDGE is increasing with time. Belief is another matter. I would say IF you are atheist, anything you say here is atheist knowledge, and is a contribution. There is no limit to it. Almost a definition of infinity, with collective being the sum of all atheists knowledge. (Given time). You have really started something, GG.. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

awww Don, nothing about eating your children, I'm disappointed.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Is it called a holy document because it's full of holes, or is that just a coincidence?rgmwa

I think it was produced by Fox News.

 

 

[Guest Nightmare1]

[nomadpete]

Further to Facthunter's post, Dare I suggest that some theist people's knowledge may have improved due to the contribution of Atheist Knowledge in this thread ? ?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Further to Facthunter's post, Dare I suggest that some theist people's knowledge may have improved due to the contribution of Atheist Knowledge in this thread ? ?

You can dare, but I've made a lifetime decision to steer clear of atheists as much as I can.

 

I made an effort to go right back through the history of the world, but when you read through the thread the majority of it is just unfounded invective, and baseless crap.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I've made a lifetime decision to steer clear of atheists as much as I can.

I can just see the conversation with your bank manager... "Now... before I apply for this loan... do you BELIEVE IN GOD??? 'No'??? Then I'm taking my business to someone who does!"

 

the majority of it is just unfounded invective, and baseless crap.

Oh, the irony.

 

 

[turboplanner]

That's exactly what I'm talking about; a complete was of time.

 

 

[facthunter]

Longest running topic (except for one other) isn't it? Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Longest running topic (except for one other) isn't it? Nev

On this site Nev, or for humanity as a whole?

 

I reckon battle of the sexes would've gone longer. As soon as cavemen were able to grunt they'd be complaining to each other about their wives (and vice versa.)

 

 

[kasper]

Hmmm ... if there is a god I think I must have been naughty because he just sent me the most incompetent and painfully thick auditor ... it took all my self control to avoid actions that tend to lead to 5-12 years with a non parole of 3 :-(

 

 

[facthunter]

Marty, I was referring to this site, but man (kind) has certainly pondered these things since pondering became possible. The EGO is so strong we just couldn't have arrived here without some grand purpose intended. Humans think in the abstract, but WO-men have instinct as well and don't argue with that or it will cost you. Nev

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Intelligent Design and Creationism were declared by the Courts (Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al. (400 F. Supp. 2d 707, Docket No. 4cv2688)) in the USA to be "not science". Teaching Intelligent Design in the USA is not permitted because to do so would breach their Constitution.

 

There is no argument possible to support Intelligent Design or creationism as being Science.

 

Believe what you like but know that Intelligent Design is just an act of faith and Evolution is accepted as established science which is true whether you believe it or not.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

. . . when you read through the thread the majority of it is just unfounded invective, and baseless crap.

And then there is all the good stuff written by the people who choose to think about things rather than take the easy way out and just believe what somebody else told them without any requirement for any kind of proof. All you need is faith and life becomes sooooo simple. Everything has an answer and there is only one mystery - the way God works.

 

 

[Guest Nightmare1]

Well what ever you call me, Athiest or otherwise, I stopped believing in fairy-tails a long time ago when I was a child. That includes Santa Claus and any form of religion. Religion is just another excuse for people to be really sh!tty to one another. If a person wants to believe in a fantasy, if it doesn't hurt anyone, who's business is it of mine? I just pity that individual as they are missing out on so much in life that their religion would otherwise deny them.

 

 

[facthunter]

I kept on believing in Santa because I reckon if I didn't believe, the presents might be less in number. Same with getting money for my teeth. The presents and money are REAL even if the providers are not. Nev

 

 

[kasper]

Well our primary school was tiny - never more than 12 kids from Kinder - 6 and the nearest 2 towns were more than half an hours drive away so religion was delivered by visiting people from the towns. As there were only 4 families at the school and the parents were either hippies or apathetic on religion the outcome was ALL kids went to ALL religious instruction - Catholic, Anglican, Uniting and Jewish - we did the lot.

 

Rector Hart from the Catholic faith knew he was on a loosing wicket - nice pictures but all rather a lot of thou shalt not and only a single chocolate egg at Easter for us

 

Rabbi Levi for Jewish faith was even worse off - salt fish as a celebration food and no Christmas with presents or Easter with chocolates - no way!

 

The Uniting church was quite good - lots of friendly booklets and singing to the guitar - got a pass but didn't understand his audience ...

 

The winner was the Anglican - he bribed us with sweets and chocolates every time he came and gave out colouring books AND pencils

 

But overall the winner was atheism - we may have been only kids but we could see that four different groups who could not agree on anything and had to bribe and swindle little kids had problems ... and the idea of evolution sort of made more sense PLUS anything that gave you dinosaurs beat them all! We all turned out rather an unreligious lot.

 

Now that may sound like a made up story ... but it really happened in the 70's in central west NSW.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

. . . PLUS anything that gave you dinosaurs beat them all! We all turned out rather an unreligious lot.

And that is a large part of the reason that creationists insist that people and dinosaurs were around at the same time. They can and do use dinosaurs to get the kids in.

 

Personally, I'd ban any form of religious indoctrination of children under 18 years old but permit instruction without qualification on the nature of religions and the differences between religions and sects of religions. For example, you would look at the broad religious groupings of Abrahamic, Buddhist, Hindu and "others" (Scientology and other scans). Then, briefly examine the different sects of, e,g., the Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I doubt that you would get time to or find much value in delving in to the sects of sects like the multifarious versions of Christianity.

 

I think there would be considerable advantage in studying the psychology of people who prefer to arrive at a perception of life through belief systems in preference to thinking systems.

 

My formal religious education was very narrow being almost exclusively on one sub-sect of the Christian sect of the Abrahamic group. I was very successful in examinations on this subject and later went on to privately research many other sects and religious groups. I found perhaps the most challenging and interesting thinking in that of Emannuel Kant. Added benefit of that was hearing the female psychology students correctly pronouncing his surname correctly but then I was a bit of a deviate even in my younger days.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Don,

 

You are been far too generous- no education on religion should be permitted in schools at all with the exception of how religions relate to ethics in society ie historical perspective and common ethics across different belief systems.

 

Ethics and Society should be taught to all students as a compulsory subject and only by qualified teachers. This should also apply to any school that receive government funds. No religious teachings even in religion run schools- they receive government money so should not be allowed to use that money on religion- as the constitution intended.

 

If a religious school wishes to teach religion it should be out of school hours, be truly optional and must not use school staff- as they are government funded. I can hear the screams now but they have the option of becoming actually a real private school and thus not receive any government money even in kind. That assumes they pass the curriculum standards- if not they are a institution of indoctrination. And if you are indoctrinating children you are evil and should be illegal.

 

It is about time we got real and saw religious education systems for what they are- institutions of systemic abuse of the childs mind and often body. To make a child believe in sky fairies and indoctrinate them into having a belief system that is anti reality- is the creation of a psychosis in the child and that is abuse at a crucial time in the childs development .

 

I know this sounds extreme but it is the reality of the situation.

 

Said enough for now.

 

Back to man cave to prepare the altar- have many vestal virgins to sacrifice. And beer to drink- bloody hot as hell here in Sydney.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Tell me more about these vestal virgins.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

First thing I'd do is get rid of all non state schools and put all kids through the one education system. Only merit would seperate and there would be genuine equality of opportunity so the brightest, hardest worker comes out on top where they ought to be. At the moment, we could have another Einstien born in Rooty Hill and he'd be lucky to make to year 12.

 

 

[Marty_d]

First thing I'd do is get rid of all non state schools and put all kids through the one education system. Only merit would seperate and there would be genuine equality of opportunity so the brightest, hardest worker comes out on top where they ought to be. At the moment, we could have another Einstien born in Rooty Hill and he'd be lucky to make to year 12.

Given that governments enjoy nothing more than ripping money OUT of the education system, can't see that happening.

 

In my kid's state primary school, class sizes are at least 25 and no teachers aide apart from Kinder. It must be a full time job just trying to settle down 25 rowdy 7 year olds, much less try to actually impart any knowledge to them.

 

At the least every classroom should have an aide to assist with the grunt work and a highly motivated teacher. And none of this stupid NAPLAN testing which just distracts from actual education.

 

Full time qualified science teacher in each school would also make a difference. If we want Australia to be competitive we need to be inspiring kids with science from an early age.

 

 

[facthunter]

Vestal Virgins...Too hot to think about them.. Nev

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Given that governments enjoy nothing more than ripping money OUT of the education system, can't see that happening.

Come the revolution . . . .

 

In my kid's state primary school, class sizes are at least 25 and no teachers aide apart from Kinder. It must be a full time job just trying to settle down 25 rowdy 7 year olds, much less try to actually impart any knowledge to them.

In my second year at High School, there were 72 in our class. No misprint, seventy-two. One teacher - a good one. Discipline was no problem as corporal punishment was freely available and freely applied. One day the teacher gave every kid in the class 2 cuts each with his cane. Did I mention he was pretty fit?

 

Don't know if I'd recommend that set up for today but it did work and, to the best of my knowledge nobody had a nervous breakdown. All seemed quite fair and normal at the time. Do something you should not and instant and impressive retribution. By the time these same people got to senior high school - no cane needed and still no discipline issues. Only ever saw caning abused (used unfairly and excessively) once, by one teacher who was very lucky not to get his lights punched out and thrown off the third floor walkway.

 

Could you imagine the outcry if a school was run like that now?

 

At the least every classroom should have an aide to assist with the grunt work and a highly motivated teacher.

Despite comments above, I agree. Some of our teachers are extraordinarily good and we'd all benefit from getting the best from them by giving them assistance. By the same token, we have some less than ordinary teachers who would benefit from being mentored by one of the really good teachers. This could be done with very little cost increase by doubling class sizes and having two teachers in every classroom. The kids would never need to be left unsupervised and there would be great synergy available (1+1=3).

 

Teachers gain their education and qualifications largely solo and get very little instruction on how to teach. Most learn on the job (if ever) especially managing student classroom behaviour and motivation. A two-teacher system would be hugely beneficial in overcoming the current poor system.

 

And none of this stupid NAPLAN testing which just distracts from actual education.

Not a perfect system by any means but there is an immutable 1st Law of Performance Management and that is "If you don't measure performance you can't improve performance". Make the NAPLAN process better but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Full time qualified science teacher in each school would also make a difference.

OMG we don't have that? At least in High Schools?

 

If we want Australia to be competitive we need to be inspiring kids with science from an early age.

Could not agree more. Sadly we have run the education system down badly over the last 50 years. Depressed teacher salaries lead to less interest in becoming teachers lead to low ability people being hired as teachers. Physical facilities I think have improved but the core to learning has been downgraded. Very stupid politicians voted in by very dumb Australians. Teachers Unions haven't always helped by resisting change at every opportunity.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Not a perfect system by any means but there is an immutable 1st Law of Performance Management and that is "If you don't measure performance you can't improve performance". Make the NAPLAN process better but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That is true, but if you have better teachers then they have a good idea where every student is performing. Testing the kids themselves is a false measure. Kids react differently to formal testing, some freeze up, some do ok. Better just to have the teacher report on their progress against the standards. At least that way they can concentrate on giving them a good education and not just monkey-training them to do specific tasks well so they get a better NAPLAN test score.

 

OMG we don't have that? At least in High Schools?

Don't know about high schools, but not in all primary schools. Some have tested having full-time qualified science teachers in primary schools and report higher levels of student interest and engagement which flows on into high school. I think that quality teaching in early years is the most "bang for the buck" because the effects set the kids up for all their following education.