dazza 38 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Science of Big Bang gets knocked on head"Today's Herald Sun story explains how scientists are now abandoning their clsim. The last line quotes: "it's like finding out there's no Santa Clause" Maybe so, looks like God was watching What do you mean there is no Santa Clause ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Science of Big Bang gets knocked on head"Today's Herald Sun story explains how scientists are now abandoning their clsim. The last line quotes: "it's like finding out there's no Santa Clause" Maybe so, looks like God was watching I would be very interested to read that, do you have a link? the only thing I can find online from the Herald Sun is this http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/big-bang-theory-under-threat-from-quantum-graphity-breakthrough/story-fncynkc6-1226454428502 from 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What a pity I don't read the Herald Sun. I'm going to miss out on some expert knowledge. I hadn't been inclined to expect to find much there. It's on a par with the Terrorgraph mostly. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 That venerable Journal of Science, the Herald Sun. How could it not be true? Funny, but the alternate theory doesn't seem to involve an omnipotent old man with a three-way split personality. The difference between people who think and people who suspend credibility so they can believe the utterly improbable is that the thinkers have an open mind and will listen to new evidence and theory compared with the closed mind believers who believe the same twaddle that somebody tod them when they were young and impressionable regardless of the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Science of Big Bang gets knocked on head"Today's Herald Sun story explains how scientists are now abandoning their clsim. The last line quotes: "it's like finding out there's no Santa Clause" Maybe so, looks like God was watching OK, I went and bought a Herald Sun (I feel dirty now) and read the article, I then found from a different source the full article. The Herald Sun shortened version seemed a little misleading. This article is more complete and from a reputable source. https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140921-big-bang-signal-could-all-be-dust-planck-says/ Here is my understanding: Cosmic inflation is a leading theory of the Big Bang (but not the only one). Last year a team conducted an experiment to detect what they thought should be a radio signal (a swirl pattern which would confirm gravitational waves) which would be absolute proof of cosmic inflation. They concluded that they had found this evidence. Through the process of peer review it was found that the method they had used could not rule out that the signal detected being contaminated due to cosmic dust. In other words the further evidence for cosmic inflation they thought they had found was invalid therefore we return to the situation as it was before their supposed discovery. Their work continues. quote: Inflation will remain the leading Big Bang theory even if the entire BICEP2 signal fades to dust, said Mark Trodden, a professor of physics at the University of Pennsylvania. It explains the smoothness and uniformity of the universe and gives a mechanism for structure formation, he explained — “but all this evidence is highly circumstantial.” Confirmation of primordial gravitational waves would have locked the theory down, resolving once and for all the picture of the beginning of time. Now, “the jury is still out,” Keating said. The Herald Sun article is misleading, to say that "the big bang theory has not been knocked on it's head" is nonsense. The big bang theory will ultimately be proven or disproven but this does not say anything about "whether magic man in the sky did it or not" The popular press is about as reliable on reporting on science as it is on reporting aircraft accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What a pity I don't read the Herald Sun. I'm going to miss out on some expert knowledge. I hadn't been inclined to expect to find much there. It's on a par with the Terrorgraph mostly. Nev The commie rag will probably catch up tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Thanks Octave, I'm on the road, will have a read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Re the kiddy fiddling some seemed to treat it as a fringe benefit of being in the job. In fairness it's not only the priests. Sexual exploitation appears to be anywhere it could possibly be. Seems kiddy fiddlers have been very successful seeking out kiddy contact jobs, in churches as well as other service providers, notice they always prefer to seek out the vulnerable. Saddest part is that the ones who get caught seem to always manage to demonstrate that they were able to continue with protection from further up the chain of command in their organisations. I would find it very interesting to know how many who hid the alleged child abuse by others to protect the organisation also did it to protect themselves from their benefits of the job. Thank God for the Salvos, keeping up their end of the show too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 That inflation is the Keating theory and the swirl must be the J curve. Weve been there before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 That inflation is the Keating theory and the swirl must be the J curve. Weve been there before. Reminds me of the forecasting that goes on for exchange and interest rates . . . Just extrapolate where it has been going for the last few weeks. Nearly as accurate as one line weather forecasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 When you barber tells you to plant a certain type of crop, grub it out. Often in farming doing the opposite of what all the others are doing is the best way. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yeah, those silly scientists. What would they know? If you really want to know how the universe was created, all you need is a hillbilly comedian in a white tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Why is is that some atheists here are trying to perpetuate the myth that the Bible is "the word of God" when most of the authors are clearly identified, and nowhere has God signed off on a paragraph? Why are people still trying o make something of the Bible error that the world is only 6,200, 6,300, 6,700 years old when we have carbon dating proof otherwise? Why do you Don rail against the Christian church, when I already gave you references which show Saul/Paul made it all up, and there are plenty more references for you to follow up? Why don't you turn your attention to the con artists and monsters down through the ages who perpetuated Saul's lies and used them to victimise a large part of the world's population for 2,000 years? That had nothing to do with any action by God. Why are some atheists focusing on Jesus Christ rather than telling us why they don'y believe in God? I've posted information that takes belief in God back 30,000 years, so why would you be focusing on the last 2/30 to proclaim your atheist beliefs. Let's see someone trying to challenge the evidence coming from the dead sea scrolls, the Essenes, and other groups going back that 30,000 years who believe in God. Never mind messing around with a fairy story which started out as a way to rip money off people just 2,000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Just what I like Tubz ... a non conventional thinker. I hate what religion has done to the concept of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Why is is that some atheists here are trying to perpetuate the myth that the Bible is "the word of God" when most of the authors are clearly identified, and nowhere has God signed off on a paragraph? Why are people still trying o make something of the Bible error that the world is only 6,200, 6,300, 6,700 years old when we have carbon dating proof otherwise? Why do you Don rail against the Christian church, when I already gave you references which show Saul/Paul made it all up, and there are plenty more references for you to follow up? Why don't you turn your attention to the con artists and monsters down through the ages who perpetuated Saul's lies and used them to victimise a large part of the world's population for 2,000 years? That had nothing to do with any action by God. Why are some atheists focusing on Jesus Christ rather than telling us why they don'y believe in God? I've posted information that takes belief in God back 30,000 years, so why would you be focusing on the last 2/30 to proclaim your atheist beliefs. Let's see someone trying to challenge the evidence coming from the dead sea scrolls, the Essenes, and other groups going back that 30,000 years who believe in God. Never mind messing around with a fairy story which started out as a way to rip money off people just 2,000 years ago. Does it matter? Fairy stories 30,000 years ago are no more believable than those of the last 2,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Why is is that some atheists here are trying to perpetuate the myth that the Bible is "the word of God" when most of the authors are clearly identified, and nowhere has God signed off on a paragraph? Because that is what Christians tell us. I don't really know many Christians or denominations that don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of god. What do Christians on this forum think? Why are people still trying o make something of the Bible error that the world is only 6,200, 6,300, 6,700 years old when we have carbon dating proof otherwise? Because SOME Christians (the creationist type) are pushing this line. There is a push by some religious organisations to have creation taught as science. Whilst I have no problem with people believing in a god, I do think that turning our science education over to these people would be a disaster for our country. Why are some atheists focusing on Jesus Christ rather than telling us why they don'y believe in God? Challenge accepted, happy to say why I don't believe in god. I will get right on to it and will post it later today. Let's see someone trying to challenge the evidence coming from the dead sea scrolls, the Essenes, and other groups going back that 30,000 years who believe in God I don't have any problem with the notion that people may have believed in gods for 30 000 years, in fact I would be extremely surprised if humans had not believed in gods for a good deal longer than that. The fact that belief in gods has been around a long time does not prove that they actually exist. The belief in which craft has been around a long time but that does not mean that they actually exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Does it matter? Fairy stories 30,000 years ago are no more believable than those of the last 2,000 years. What fairy stories? I only posted about discoveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because that is what Christians tell us. I don't really know many Christians or denominations that don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of god. What do Christians on this forum think? Because SOME Christians (the creationist type) are pushing this line. There is a push by some religious organisations to have creation taught as science. Whilst I have no problem with people believing in a god, I do think that turning our science education over to these people would be a disaster for our country. Challenge accepted, happy to say why I don't believe in god. I will get right on to it and will post it later today. I don't have any problem with the notion that people may have believed in gods for 30 000 years, in fact I would be extremely surprised if humans had not believed in gods for a good deal longer than that. The fact that belief in gods has been around a long time does not prove that they actually exist. The belief in which craft has been around a long time but that does not mean that they actually exist. This is a thread relating to atheists. If you don't believe in Christianity that puts you in another place. Not gods Octave, a single God. i'm only searching for references to a single God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Not gods Octave, a single God. i'm only searching for references to a single God Why only a single god? Do you rule out multiple gods? Not having a go here, just wondering where you are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Why are some atheists focusing on Jesus Christ rather than telling us why they don'y believe in God? Why I don't believe in god. Although I did not come from a religious family I do remember there being a bible in the house. I can clearly remember the picture on the front, a man with long flowing robes and long blond hair and a blond beard. When I was about 6 or 7 a neighbor offered to take me and my sister to sunday school, something we did not usually do. I suspect my parents agreed to this due to social pressure. I recall having to sing "All things bright an beautiful" and after I asked the sunday school teacher if god had made the horrible things as well, this question went unanswered (I was not trying to be a smart arse it was a genuine and obvious question). I could smell BS. Fortunately I was not forced to continue but at this point I think was an atheist (although I had never heard of that word). During my primary school years my prize possessions were my science encyclopedia, my "How and Why" Books, my "Tell me Why" books and my microscope. I can remember the excitement of the "apollo" years and the moon landings. Later as a teenager I was given a telescope and I joined the Astronomical Society which met monthly at Adelaide Uni. I would often on the weekend stay up most of the night with my telescope and I loved reading about astronomy and cosmology. I did of course want to become an astronomer but to be brutally honest although in high school I studied physics and chemistry my academic performance was less than impressive. So that is my childhood, I have never been directly mistreated by anyone in the church, I am not rebelling against anyone and I am most certainly not "angry at god" as many believers like to suggest. So is there a god? In my opinion probably not but of course it is impossible to say for sure. The fact that we don't know the origin of the universe, saying that god did it is pointless, it is explaining one unknown with another unknown. If you tell me that god created the universe then the logical and rational question is where did god come from? At the moment I am reading 'The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene and "A universe from nothing" by Lawrence Kraus which outline what we do know about the beginning of the universe (and it is more than you might think) What if there is a god? I am often asked "what if you are wrong and there is a god?" The answer to this is of course, "what if you are wrong and it turns out you have been worshipping the wrong god?" The universe has approximately 300 sextillion stars (that is 3 followed by 23 zeros), The furthest object to be observed is a galaxy that is 13.1 billion light years away. As Douglas Adams once said "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space" So my thoughts on this are why would a god that supposedly created this vast universe be so interested in what we do with our gentials and whether we sleep in on a sunday or not? Why would such a god be so needy in terms of being loved and worshipped. We all want to be loved and respected but the kind of love and respect that comes with a threat of eternal torture is surely worthless. "But how do you know right from wrong" I don't really need a god or a bible to tell me that killing and stealing is wrong. The reasons for me not to steal or kill are: 1) empathy, we have evolved to feel anothers pain and loss, granted we are also capable of cruel behaviour but our society would never have flourished if we had absolutely no empathy. 2) There is a deal we have with our fellow humans (well most of them) I wont steal your car if you wont steal mine. 3) Because all human societies have some form of law. Aboriginals had a system of justice and punishment long before they were exposed to the Bible. When people raise this point I usually ask them if their belief in god is the only thing stopping them from transgressing, perhaps these people do need religion. I could go on an on about this but I fear it my be a tad boring, so to summarize: I strongly suspect there is no god (but sufficient hard evidence could sway me) If there is a god I feel it is unlikely that he/she is the cranky insecure god of the bible. I have a happy and fulfilling life and as I don't believe in an afterlife I know that this life should not be wasted. I have no problem with people believing on all sorts of things , but religion is not science and science is not religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Of course there is a God, but now we have to define God. If God is what produced the universe, I could accept we have a God. If God is what religion teaches, then I couldn't believe there is a God. So my God does not need me to worship him/her/it and couldn't care less about me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 ...all you need is a hillbilly comedian in a white tie. Confirms again what we've seen in the preceding pages - fundamental Atheists* essentially don't do humour. To me it comes across as a narrow minded hectoring, soulless religion for the spiritually dead. Just in case you were wondering. Hey I feel for you stuck in that Marty! * just to be clear I am only referring to fundamental Atheists (really anti-theists) here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The majority of Americans believe the Bible is the absolute word of god. FEW know the name of the first chapter or have read it. The Islamists likewise I imagine but many of them can recite most of it. An atheist would not by definition believe in Christianity or ANY other religion or He/ She would not be an atheist. What rule is there to preclude an atheist quoting from any scripture, as part of a proposition? An atheist might acknowledge some of the commandments are useful without agreeing where they come from. IF we have a broad discussion on a subject who can reasonably restrict where one quotes from? If however someone says it is true because it is in the bible, that is not going to hold with an atheist, and that has to be fair enough, the same as a christian won't believe all that is in the Koran. You have excelled yourself in the post above Gnarly for the most illogical post yet from you, but I've given it a funny , because there is no illogical . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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