Old Koreelah

5 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Well I started a school called "trinity college"and I was too scared to ask after I nearly got burned at the stake aver the level spirit happening. So I asked an old mate, who lives in a suburb of Adelaide called Trinity Gardens.

He said the answer was to turn on the asker and ask him " who or what  put that blasphemous question in your head?

SO, on the subject of the trinity, you can count be as a muslim.

On 27/7/2023 at 8:44 PM, willedoo said:

It's not easy to make a prophet these days.

I disagree; there are heaps of wealthy prophets in the US of A.

We need all the help we can get:
 

https://www.facebook.com/StealthPerformanceProducts/videos/start-your-day-off-with-something-wholesome-/932943081111047/
 

43 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Go back 78 years and the Germans and Japanese were the bad guys.

For most of the time since it opened to the world, Japan has been our ally.

Britain’s policy down the centuries has been to shift alliances to prevent any single European nation from getting too powerful. The Germans helped Britain defeat Bonaparte. The Turks helped them rein in the Russians. 

43 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

In the 80's the Taliban were the good guys… 

Those primitive bastards were never good. Reagan helped their fathers, the noxious Mujahadeen, to defeat a secular, modernist government in Afhganistan.

9 minutes ago, red750 said:

My cardiologists waiting room features a 32in TV screen playing a huge tank of tropical fish and sharks, like a massive aquarium.

Great idea! Better than the mindless crap too often inflicted on waiting patients.
The best waiting room idea I saw was being advised by the receptionist to wait in the comfort of my car listening to ABC Classics until my turn, when she would call me. Saved me an hour in a room of coughs and sneezes!

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

…Check what type of car they drive and where they holiday to see if they live in the same world as you do.. Nev

After their years of study and training, how could you begrudge a medico a decent lifestyle? Rural areas have a critical shortage, so let’s pay them well.

However, I do admit to judging a doctor by their casual reading, which usually gets left in the waiting room. After months of waiting and lots of travel, I chose not to use the service of one Sydney surgeon. His defensive bedside manner was bad enough, but the tipping point was the total lack of National Geographics, AGs, or magazines from any Aid agencies or charities in his waiting room.

All I could find to read was magazines about tax dodges.

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I was taught to be anti-catholic, but it never rubbed off...  I guess my parents were not very anti-catholic themselves.We were supposed to sing " catholic dogs, eating frogs, eating maggots out of logs" …

That resonates with me, Bruce. I grew up with quite a bit of anti-Catholic propaganda. Luckily, we lived in a town too small to support a religious school, so my best mate was a tyke.

My mum’s family were all from a fiercely anti-papist sect, so she had to do quite a bit of adjusting when her first three kids married Catholics! 

I’m impressed with how much Australian society has grown up; my staunchly Catholic in-laws have accepted into the family gays and even heathens like me!

6 minutes ago, facthunter said:

ALL of Europe has grievances to avenge. . When the perpetrators are dead and gone why keep up the HATE?  No one has ever been able to choose who their Parents are.  Nev

It seems that many nations have learned to forgive; Much of Europe seems to get along pretty well, only two generations after a big killing spree.

Australians visiting Vietnam report that the locals have no interest in the War against America and us.

It seems that the main problem is what the kids are taught; Serbs seem particularly unable to forgive the crimes done to their grandfathers. Greeks and Turks can’t seem to get along. I wonder if Turkey has offered to help fight the wildfires in Greece. If they did, would their help be accepted?

Hopefully it’s finally dawned on him that Russia’s military isn’t invincible.

In fact, Poland is the emerging threat to Russia; they have centuries of grievances to avenge.

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

"NO CHILD will live in Poverty"  too. Words are the  easy part . Whitlam was more genuine than Hawke.  Nev

Hawke was a clever politician who could create a wave and ride it, but his legacy faded.
 

Whitlam was a Statesman, driven to achieve his vision of a better Australia.

He was too far, too fast, but if he’d prevailed, Australia would now be like Norway; we’d own our resources and have trillions in savings.
Instead, we are a trillion in debt.

4 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

I would support a treaty, which is negotiated between two parties. A treaty would require a lot of sit-down negotiation and we could all see what it was about.

PM I hope that is possible, but Aboriginal Australia is not a single party-unless it elects a representative body- something the anti-voice group seem determined to prevent. We had about 255 language groups, many of which have survived.

I’d like to know why Bob Hawke didn’t follow through on his promise of a Treaty. That was decades ago and this country has changed a lot since then.

16 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Macarthur was responsible for "winning" the Korean war with his daring attack on the north Korean capital.

MacArthur was also responsible for that war expanding to include China. 

https://koreanwarlegacy.org/chapters/north-toward-the-yalu-river/

True Nev. We have bicycles at our kid’s place, 15km from the briney, and they corrode fast! Same for my mate’s collection of motorcycles, which will double in size when we relocate his cousin’s bikes to Lismore.

The most effective anti-corrosion regime I’ve seen was in Cairns, where heaps of historic racers are housed in an old cold store; the air-con reduces moisture in the air.

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

…I reckon our abos are darned lucky that the Maories did not find their way to Australia. I reckon in time they would have, and the abos would have been eaten, literally.

Bruce I totally agree about this point; it could be argued that our original people were lucky it was the British (slightly constrained by Magna Carta and the rule of law) who took over their country. At the same time, the Japanese were expandng north, exterminating the natives and the Americans were doing the same to their First Nations, breaking promises and Treaties at will.

On the other hand, the French seemed to have a much more enlightened attitude to the locals; French explorers set up camp, planted gardens and learned from the natives.

Having said all that, just because most of our natives were more welcoming and peaceful than the Maoris is not an arguement against giving them some overdue recognition and a voice.

12 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

The tram to Bondi beach did a steep descent in a left hand turn at high speed, with a cut on one side. Hence “shot through like a Bondi tram”.

As I recently posted, the old Bondi Tram Terminal is visible from my bed. Here it is from above (the one with roof windows):

Once again, a few powerful foreigners are shaking the Australian jar and watching the inevitable conflict. They know how easy it is to awaken the great Australian Cultural Cringe.
We can’t change anything in this country without broad, bipartisan political support. The NO side made up its mind even before they heard the shape of the proposal. 
 

How embarassing, when all we wanted to do is give our indigenous people a Voice. Some very successful democracies gave them a Treaty and reserved seats in Parliament, but no, Australia gives foreign-owned corporations more access to government.

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

Re Aboriginal royalties, the ABC has run an interesting story on the Gove Operations in FNQ -

Actually in eastern Arnhem Land, NT.

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

- their "Land" is not owned by individuals, it is communal land, and they regard all property as communal, and have extreme difficulty in understanding that an individual "owns" something exclusively.

That concept of property ownership is at the core of Aboriginal Australia’s disconnect with the wider national culture.

Sad that many Yolgnu are not ready. Efforts to educate and train them should be seen in the light of historical experience.

Over a century ago they were being invaded and shot by white cattlemen and asked missionaries for protection. Yirrkala community was the result. The missionaries built schools and educated generations of kids. They had their own trade schools. Yolgnu built their own houses. They worked at their own pace, with cultural obligations taking priority. 
 

After the government took over, Canberra tended to overrule local decisions. Local workers were gradually replaced by blow-ins and local people gave up.

This is well documented in Why Warriors Lay Down and Die- a book that should be required reading for eveyone in positions of power over Aboriginals.

Japan can rightly claim to have been forced into war with America- if we ignore their appalling invasion of China.

Their attempt to expand north into Siberia was beaten by Zhukov’ Red Army; some Japanese units refused to surrender and were slaughtered to a man. 

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

An interesting cultural thing... fifty years ago I worked with a bloke who was a whistlecock, as it was known. When he was young, they burned a hole through the base of his penis so that when he ejaculated, he would not make a woman pregnant. They did this, apparently, to limit population. I think it was quite clever and I admire their technical skill. Of course, today it would be the worst sort of child abuse.

PM that subincision inititiation rite was widely practised across the Top End. Presumably still done today.

I’ve been told by Indig women that they were quite pleased about it, too- in the sense of greater stimulation.

It’s believed to have a significant contraceptive effect. Apparently men have to put a finger over the hole to urinate,

The wartime Japanese government was quite prepared to sacrifice millions of civilians to keep out the foreign invaders. They had over ten thousand planes and numerous other craft ready for kamikaze missions. The tipping point was the massive and rapid Soviet onslaught. They’d never been able to beat the Russian and knew how the Bolsheviks had massacred the Russian royals. Suddenly, surrender to MacArthur was the only hope of saving their culture. 
 

MacArthur was quite an imperfect character, but one thing he should be admired for is steering that defeated fascist state towards becoming a peaceful modern democracy. I believe the current Constitution of Japan is largely his work.

57 minutes ago, onetrack said:

3. We had a previous attempt at a type of "Voice" for the Indigenous community. It was called ATSIC and it was an outstanding failure and was dissolved.

Agreed, ATSIC was far from perfect, but so were quite a few other government bodies, some of which were more corrupted and wasteful. Were they subjected to the same ridicule from the right-wing media?

57 minutes ago, onetrack said:

5. There is no requirement to present any proof that you are a holder of special knowledge or leadership abilities amongst the Indigenes. It appears that anyone can present themselves as an Indigenous "Elder" and therefore command a major level of respect, power and abilities to interfere in Govt and public-interest decision-making, by claiming they represent a huge number of aggrieved Indigenous individuals.

Good point, but instead of tossing the whole idea of Elders, why not fine-tune it by requiring community acknowledgement of their status?

57 minutes ago, onetrack said:

This development means I am now compelled to support the belief systems of Aboriginal groups - something I believe is not allowed under the Constitution. I think this area has yet to be played out in the Courts.

Interesting point.

57 minutes ago, onetrack said:

6. Finally, I believe the Voice will only produce another massive level of bureaucracy that must be set up to deal with Indigenous claims and aggrievances whenever some kind of development is planned.

You may sneer at developers - but the developers are an important part of our Australian society..

Good point; as OME suggests, the bureacracy is due a good clean-out.
May I suggest this former minister in the NSW government, who is widely credited with major improvements in Service NSW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Dominello

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Do you help keep a culture going even though it is a bad one?

Bruce that’s a brave question on a contentious topic. It sure isn’t PC to trash another culture, but we should be able to address extreme aspects. Cultures can change; we no longer burn witches.

Australia has been challenging some of the worst of our national culture. We’ve had big public campaigns against littering, pollution, domestic violence, etc.

Among our new arrivals, female genital mutilation, honour killings and slavery have been challenged, but there’s much more to do. (Some recent immigrants would be justified in criticising the Australian culture of extreme boozing.)

There’s much about our indig cultures that is admirable, but appalling levels of abuse against women and kids. One of my sisters was a nurse at isolated settlements in the centre and once worked all night with a knife at her throat. 
It would be hoped that, as Aboriginal peoples regain power over their lives, they address the unpalatable aspects of their own culture. 

Right wing shock jocks have a habit of stirring up outrage, then get very quiet later when their claims are discredited. (Alan Jones “going on holidays” after the Cronulla Riots is an example.) They don’t care, because the damage is done and too many of their listeners don’t bother checking the facts.
 

Murdoch’s Daily Terragraph doesn’t seem to mind regularly pay millions in libel case. 
 

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

A glaring problem with OME's idea ( which I like ) is the precedent of consultancy fees. Millions will be transferred to fat white ladies who are "legal" aborigines. This happens now of course.

If only a "work for the dole" scheme could establish such advisory bodies without millions of fees being handed out, then it should be supported.

Bruce you may well be riight, but at least the money would be wasted in our country. Where is the outrage against the LNP over the billions they wasted on utterly corrupt foreign consultants?

17 minutes ago, red750 said:

If it doesn't have supervisory or veto powers it's a miillion dollar lame duck.

 

There are and have been aboriginal members of parliament and forner national president of the ALP who have had an opportunity to be the voice, and are recommending a No vote. Good enough for me.

Those examples are not valid arguements against the Voice. We all know how political parties bend people to their way of thinking. Potential candidates often perform political gymnastics to get preselected. Once elected, they are under enormous pressure to toe the party line, often against the interests of people they are supposed to represent.
 

What we really should be doing (as OME has, above) is coming up with positive alternatives. There are heaps of success stories about progress made by our indig people, but how often does the media tell us those stories?