Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 OK...Re your 2nd para above, it is fascinating how 2 people can see things so differently. IMO, Gillard, Swan and Garret were a disaster for this country, again just chucking money at issues. Money that will take a decade or more to get back into the national coffers. The Schools Sheds program was mismanaged and there were about 4 layers of rip-off with each layer adding a margin to the below layer's rip-off. The Kill Kids Pink Bat program was a poorly conceived feel-good mismanaged disaster. I fully agree that these schemes were badly mismanaged, but Rudd's government kept this country out of the recession that decimated most others; and lots of needy schools received buildings they might never have got otherwise. By your logic we should be lambasting Churchill for mistakes he made during WWII- and the debt Britain is still paying off. The previous Howard government wasted much of the resources windfall on tax cuts; Australians blew it on imported consumer goods and McMansions. Meanwhile, our country is crying out for investment on infrastructure for our future. ...Nobody in the business community with whom I mix is unhappy with the Fed Govt. ... The coal industry would be happy, but there are plenty who are pretty disappointed with them. ?..Where you and I may agree, however, is that the Aussie predominately lawyer based "Political Class", be they Labour or LCP, are all tarred with the same brush and have let the country down. Yep Geoff, I totally agree. We need more doers and scientists in Canberra- and fewer lawyers, union officials and party cronies (you have to agree with Keating's assessment of so many in the Senate as being "unrepresentative swill"). ...and in mine it's the Liberals. Both sides have been corrupted by donations to political parties, which is then spent in election campaigns. It is in the interests of the commercial media to ramp up the cost of elections- and once in office, no Government can last long without cow-towing to the Murdock press. When our PMs make their pilgrimage to the USA, who do they seek an audience with? Rupert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Gazza we already spending $1.2B a year running those concentration camps on Nauru and Manus Island. That $50M a boat figure is semi confirmed by budget briefings Thats is great, we are propping up the economies of our little neigbours. And I wouldn't call them concentration camps. The last time I checked, they got fed and im pretty sure there is no Gas chambers. Ps- I have replied because I think FT said Gazza I assume he meant Dazza. If not, sorry Gazza, step in and reply, who ever you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (What amazes me is that his extensive war service was barely mentioned, and never used to his advantage.) Which war? Gough was an ardent supporter of the Viet Cong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Concentration camps are designed to break people not house them There was an amnesty international report into the conditions, put aside your bias and you decide if we are taking the moral high ground. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/16/broken-toilets-no-shoes-limited-water-the-daily-humiliations-of-life-on-manus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Which war? Gough was an ardent supporter of the Viet Cong. 170 missions flying against the Japanese. Other politicians would have been made a national hero for less. He never mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'm quite encouraged to see you coming down from accusations that leaders are murderers, to just criminals, but you need some beyond doubt evidence, so let's hear it. GWB will be remembered for unleashing the mess that has killed 100,000 plus and plunged a whole region into chaos. The current PM's daughter was the recipient of a suspect scholarship, he has been caught out with dodgy travel claims and his party has been implicated in taking dodgy donations from developers. The deafening media silence about these and other matters is in stark contrast to the relentless grilling dished out to wrong-doers of the Gillard or Rudd governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 GWB will be remembered for unleashing the mess that has killed 100,000 plus and plunged a whole region into chaos. The current PM's daughter was the recipient of a suspect scholarship, he has been caught out with dodgy travel claims and his party has been implicated in taking dodgy donations from developers. The deafening media silence about these and other matters is in stark contrast to the relentless grilling dished out to wrong-doers of the Gillard or Rudd governments. I dunno, Kevin was a jet setter, he wasnt known as Kevin707 for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I dunno, Kevin was a jet setter, he wasnt known as Kevin707 for nothing. Yes, but how is that relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 What is wrong with the ALP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 They are too careless about who they accept for membership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'll be lunching with Australian Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop today, any messages you want passed on ..... Bex , Show her a photo of the Avocet , and get her to autograph it for me will ya . Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 GWB will be remembered for unleashing the mess that has killed 100,000 plus and plunged a whole region into chaos. The current PM's daughter was the recipient of a suspect scholarship, he has been caught out with dodgy travel claims and his party has been implicated in taking dodgy donations from developers. The deafening media silence about these and other matters is in stark contrast to the relentless grilling dished out to wrong-doers of the Gillard or Rudd governments. Oops, I spoke too soon, we're back to accusing the President of the United States 0f being a murderer. Could you confirm that you did see my post regarding the numbers of elected people in Congress who make these decisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Oops, I spoke too soon, we're back to accusing the President of the United States 0f being a murderer. Could you confirm that you did see my post regarding the numbers of elected people in Congress who make these decisions? On June 1, 1787, the delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia voted twice on this matter. To paraphrase: The Congress would have the power to make the decision for war, and The Congress could not delegate the authority to decide on war to the President. [*]Early Congresses passed laws declaring, and delineating, the scope of war. [*]George Washington (who presided over the Constitutional Convention in 1787 and helped form the features of the executive branch as the first person to fill the office of President of the United States), thought it was best for the Country (click and scroll to see GW's Farewell Address). Other early presidents also tried to abide by the will of the Congress. [*]Early Supreme Court decisions, including one written by George Washington's nephew, Justice Bushrod Washington, enforced this idea: The decision to go to war, and the extent of US involvement in a war, are to be decided by Congress. Despite the words of the Constitution, the history of the Convention and the ratification process, and the only Supreme Court cases on this issue, Presidents have been ordering the military into action, without a prior Declaration from Congress, since the start of the Cold War. For more than half a century, the United States has been taken to war by the President. The legal formula to evade the Constitution is called an "Authorization to Use Military Force" (AUMF). The Congress passes a statute seeming to give authority to the President to make the decision, as he determines. Rather than enforcing the Constitution by informing the Congress of its obligation to make that determination, the lower Federal courts - from the Vietnam War era through the most recent war in Iraq - supported this formula. So far, modern Supreme Courts have refused to review this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Congratulations to Sceptic 36 for his timely interjection paraphrased as :- "WE THE PEOPLE SHALL DECIDE...". Of course we need to understand with absolute clarity the point made by George Orwell in his novel "Animal Farm", that not all of the animals are equal (and that Pigs turned out to be more <equal>!) This translates, for those who don't study the literature, to mean that people such as Rupert Murdoch, Gina Rhienehart and many others who have privileged access to the mass media, or are backed and assisted by these people have the power to scandalously manipulate public opinion. This , I believe, is what gives the "deniers" and "climate skeptics " the authority to proselytise their corrupt version of "facts" as FT refers to them. I do appologise for my sometimes blunt delivery in this forum. As the Norman Ross adds used to say, I wouldn't do this if I didn't believe it to be vitally important to throw this Mob out. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Kevin 707 was a bit rich. The aircraft used is a well serviced 737 business conversion with long range tanks.. About the least expensive aircraft one could use for the task.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Oops, I spoke too soon, we're back to accusing the President of the United States 0f being a murderer. Could you confirm that you did see my post regarding the numbers of elected people in Congress who make these decisions? Yes, Turbs, I did. I also read a lot about the real reasons for Bush (mis)leading America and it's allies into that disastrous war. You may find fault with the following sites, but they are at least as scholarly as your sources re the Knights Templar, etc. (which I enjoyed). http://www.bushcrimes.net/m/ http://www.alternet.org/dear-george-bush-and-dick-cheney-you-are-guilty-murder-letter- dying-veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Kevin 707 was a bit rich. The aircraft used is a well serviced 737 business conversion with long range tanks.. About the least expensive aircraft one could use for the task.. Nev ...and while inconvenient facts are getting in the way of popular slogans, which PM was the most frequent flyer, and what did Australia get out of it? Our current Foreign Minister has just been given a major award, largely based on her commendable work re the Ukraine airliner outrage. The people who laid the ground work for her UN successes have been overlooked. Former PMs are entitled to office space, staff and travel at taxpayers' expense. Which one cost the taxpayer the least? Paul Keating. Which one cost the most? John Howard. (Source: the Murdoch media) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 They have destroyed promising industries and the major technological innovator (ie the motor industry) for effective savings that amount to pocket change. Talk about 3rd rate debaters. What a 3rd rate post. I have been in business for myself before I even left school with my first wholly owned small business at 21 years old. In my time every successive Government be it Liberal or Labour has destroyed "promising industries" and seen technical innovation go overseas, but if I had to side with one of them then it would begrudgingly be the Libs. Whitlam made this country to easy to be lazy and apathetic, and now we are suffering his decisions - but the cowards who have been in office since him are just as bad, they have had their chance to correct it but they are too afraid of losing the Social Security, Public Service and far Left vote and that is Whitlam's legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 what uni did you go to bex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Bex , Show her a photo of the Avocet , and get her to autograph it for me will ya .Mike. I said to her "Autograph?" and she said "ok", so I gave her one of my standard signed pictures I carry. She's not a bad looking lady for 58 years of age. My Missus, Me, Bishop, our Chef and the Hotel Manager (Kiwi). [ATTACH]47493._xfImport[/ATTACH] By the way, I am neither Lib or Labour sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 what uni did you go to bex? F.U. (Sorry, couldn't resist! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 a bit star struck eh bex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Nice I said to her "Autograph?" and she said "ok", so I gave her one of my standard signed pictures I carry. She's not a bad looking lady for 58 years of age. My Missus, Me, Bishop, our Chef and the Hotel Manager (Kiwi). [ATTACH=full]32782[/ATTACH] By the way, I am neither Lib or Labour sided. Nice work Bex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 a bit star struck eh bex? You wish . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 julie "asbestos queen" bishop does nothing for me, she is neither articulate or cultured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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