octave

Actually meant to post the above fuel ad in the fuel crisis thread.

I remember this from 1979 fuel crisis.

https://tyrecycle.com.au/what-we-do/the-process/

We often go for an evening walk on a walkway over the water which is made of recycled milk containers. The walkway at Geelong Adventure Park was constructed using approximately 17,000 kg of recycled plastic, equivalent to 440,000 2-litre plastic milk bottles. This project utilized APR Composites' materials to create a durable, reclaimed infrastructure that keeps waste out of landfills. APR Composites +1 Project Details Location: Geelong Adventure Park Material Composition: 17,000 kg of recycled plastic (milk bottles) combined with 17,000 kg of reclaimed non-treated timber. Volume: Reused approximately 440,000 x 2-litre plastic milk bottles. APR Composites Local Recycling Context Plastic Types: In Geelong, HDPE (High-density polyethylene) milk containers are typically accepted in recycling bins. Container Deposit Scheme (CDS): Certain milk containers under 1L may be eligible for the Victorian Container Deposit Scheme, though guidelines can vary based on the specific material (paper vs. plastic).

Ah interesting. 30% to 40% of used tyres are used as fuel for cement kilns, industrial boilers and energy recovery systems. Here is a list Fuel (TDF): ~30–45% Crumb rubber / materials recycling: ~15–30% Export (often for fuel or reuse): ~20–40% Stockpiled / unaccounted (varies): remainder

Tyres are used in road surfacing and asphalt. You can also see it in that playground, black springy flooring. Also used in conveyor belts, and apparently, you can make fuel, but I am not sure how much this is done

Coincidentally, I just came across this. I will post a link but here are some highlights. https://reneweconomy.com.au/wild-attack-on-batteries-and-renewables-by-7s-spotlight-program-falls-over-at-the-first-fact-check/?fbclid=IwY2xjawRSvLRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEeRENsgXVWg03njVcjEv25LrV4q7XUJEVAYcOkDfurOU4zO3LDDzae9NSaOn8_aem_LVPR3uKcuhqbLOHAX9gfnA Spotlight, the so-called flagship current affairs program on the 7 network, dedicated more than an hour on Sunday evening on a report into the supply chains feeding into the renewables and EV industries, with a particular focus on cobalt mines in the Congo, and also activities in Australia. It was amplified on Murdoch and social media. It fell over at the very first fact-check. “Every battery, every electric vehicle, every piece of so-called clean energy technology today” uses cobalt, reporter Liam Bartlett claimed at the start of the program. Wrong. Nearly every big battery installed in Australia these days uses (LFP) lithium iron phosphate chemistry, which means no cobalt, and no nickel (that’s relevant because Bartlett did a similar hit job on the nickel industry last year, using that as a platform to attack EVs and renewables). Tesla, the biggest supplier to big batteries in Australia, now uses only LFP batteries for grid scale batteries. No cobalt. The two big batteries at Liddell and Tomago being built for AGL Energy by Fluence are LFP. No cobalt. A spokesperson for Fluence said all its batteries in Australia use LFP. “We don’t use cobalt.” Finland-based Wartsila, which is building the country’s biggest grid battery at Eraring for Origin Energy, also uses only LFP for its battery projects in Australia. No cobalt. It’s a similar story with EVs. Tesla, for instance, uses only LFP chemistry for most of the variants of its best selling Model Y and the Model 3. No cobalt. It uses NMC chemistry (which does include cobalt) only in “performance” variants, which amounts to about 10 per cent of sales. Home batteries, which are now being installed at record rates in Australia, are the same. New market leader Sigenergy uses only LFP chemistry, so no cobalt, as does another market leader Sungrow, and most others. Bartlett claims to be appalled by the conditions in some cobalt mines in the Congo, and the nickel mine in Indonesia. And so he should be. So should everyone. But the inconvenient truth is that these mines have been operating for decades, and cobalt has been used widely in many industries. The mineral is essential for the iPhone that Bartlett presumably uses, for the laptop he writes his stories on, for the jet engines that flew him from Australia to Africa, and for widespread use in medicine (hip and knee replacements), the petroleum industry, the manufacture of tools, for construction, for cosmetics, and even ceramics. The use of cobalt in EV and grid batteries is relatively new, and is already moving on. Where it is used, most EV makers are at pains to point out that the mineral does not come from such mines, and they produce blockchain style tracking reports to underline their claims. But Bartlett did not seem particularly interested in balance, or inconvenient detail. His story had three major themes – he doesn’t like the Chinese, he doesn’t like renewables and EVs, and he doesn’t like federal energy and climate minister Chris Bowen. “Bowen’s fanatical approach, aided and abetted by a conga line of true believers and latte-sipping Teal supporters is now set to send the country into bankruptcy,” Bartlett wrote in an op-ed also published on 7’s website. Bartlett – was global head of TV, creative visual at oil giant Shell in London from 2013-2015

Whilst some cobalt is mined under poor conditions, my understanding is that most is not. The other thing is that batteries are increasingly moving away from cobalt. LFP (lithium iron phosphate) uses no cobalt at all. I think it is entirely appropriate to give a sh1t about the percentage of cobalt that is mined by dubious means; however, it is often used is some sort of argument against renewables and EVs. Does anyone say oil refining is evil because it uses cobalt as a catalyst? About 20% of cobalt comes from artisanal mines with poor conditions. Some uses of cobalt Batteries (EVs, phones, home storage) Superalloys (jet engines, turbines) Magnets (motors, wind turbines) Catalysts (oil refining, chemicals) Pigments (cobalt blue in glass/ceramics) Medical uses (cancer treatment, sterilisation) Tool steels and industrial uses

Rooftop solar isn’t the problem here—the constraints you’re pointing to are a sign the grid hasn’t caught up yet. The system we’re using was built for one-way power flow from large generators, not for distributed generation like rooftop solar. So when you see oversupply or curtailment in places like South Australia, that’s not solar “breaking” the grid—it’s the network hitting its limits in moving and using cheap energy. We’ve seen this before in other sectors: when better technology comes along, you don’t hold it back to suit old infrastructure—you upgrade the system. That’s exactly what needs to happen here with transmission, storage, and smarter demand. Yes, we need enough capacity for low-renewable periods, and yes, storage is critical—but that’s part of the transition. Excess daytime generation isn’t a flaw, it’s an opportunity to shift cheap energy into the evening peak. Even Australian Energy Market Operator is clear on this: the solution is more transmission, more storage, and better integration—not less rooftop solar. So those constraint charts don’t show solar causing instability—they show where investment is needed to modernise the grid. You don’t solve a modern energy system with 20th-century infrastructure—you upgrade the infrastructure.

GON, I guess this is the Australia you pine for.

My son's partner is Chinese. When you say "beating down to the same level", she is a highly educated software engineer as well as kind, generous and highly amusing. I can't really see what you would find so repugnant about her. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Before I retired, I worked with many people from different countries. These people were the best and brightest in this field.

You do understand that this case came to light because his fellow soldiers reported because they were allegedly horrified by his behaviour. In the civil case, I understand that the case hinged on the eyewitness reports of fellow soldiers. I don't really see the ethnic connection here.

I don’t see people with rooftop solar as part of the problem—I see generating your own clean electricity as a positive. If we zoom out a bit, the real issue looks different. The electricity grid we use today was largely designed and built from the 1950s through to the 1990s. It was built as a one-way system: electricity flowed from large, centralised generators—coal, gas, and hydro—out to consumers. That made perfect sense at the time, because generation technology dictated that structure. But generation technology has changed. We now have distributed energy—rooftop solar being the most obvious example—where electricity is produced at the edges of the grid, not just at the centre. I think this is where we differ. You seem to be saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that generation methods should be limited by what the existing grid can handle. I’d argue the opposite: the purpose of the grid is to distribute electricity as efficiently as possible, and that means adapting it to modern forms of generation, not restricting those forms to suit legacy infrastructure. A useful comparison is telecommunications. In the 1990s, the copper phone network was sufficient for voice calls. Then the internet arrived, and we initially squeezed it through that same copper using dial-up. As technology advanced, the limitations became obvious. We didn’t respond by saying “we must limit internet use because the network can’t cope.” We upgraded the network—eventually rolling out systems like the National Broadband Network. Electricity is no different. Rooftop solar isn’t a flaw in the system—it’s a signal that the system needs to modernise. The system was built for one-way, centralised generation. Now we’ve got distributed generation changing demand patterns. That’s an engineering and market design problem, not a reason to limit a cheaper, cleaner energy source.

Something often mentioned is that whilst those of us who have installed solar may be doing fine regarding electricity bills, this is somehow at the expense of people who can't afford solar or who can't install solar because they live in apartments or rent. This is true, and we should do everything we can to ensure equity. Many other countries are a little ahead of us in this respect. I have mentioned a few times the so-called "balcony solar (it could also be in your back garden. Although many European countries, as well as some US states, allow balcony solar. This will also soon be made legal in Britain and Australia. This technology is relatively cheap and "plug and play", no electrician required.

But then aren't you part of the problem? You could take the ethical stand and disconnect your panels for the good of the grid. Here is the issue as I see it. Twenty years ago, we had an "old grid" which was well-suited to "old generation" methods. We now have "new generation' and an "old grid" I think you are saying we should match the generation method to the old grid. What I and pretty much every authoritative source are saying is to match the grid to the new, lower-cost sources. If we were to halt all new renewables and storage, what would we do? We could build new coal or nuclear. You must surely realise that this would be incredibly expensive, and if you think electricity is expensive now, you would not like what this would add to bills. I do actually have the predictions, and I am happy to post them. Another issue is this. What if we said no new renewables? People would still be installing solar and batteries. The technology is only getting cheaper day by day. An example I use is the system I designed and installed on my bush house in 1990. I still have the receipts for the panels. I installed 60watt panels at a cost of $595 per panel. That was a lot in 1990 dollars (adjusted for inflation, that would be $1515 today). For that price, you can now get a 700W panel. People will have an incentive to have their own residential power system to save the increased cost of building new coal or nuclear, and I suspect disconnecting from the grid might become more popular. Here, we do have some points of agreement. I believe we have to ensure some equity. As I posted earlier, balcony solar is coming. Buying into a shared panel installation is also a thing that is being done. When it comes to the new scheme to make electricity free for 3 hours a day, you will probably again say "it's not really free" I would suggest you knock on your neighbour's door and say, "if you were able to use electricity for 3 hours a day and not be charged " I suspect they would (will) love that. This scheme is taking electricity from solar panels that would ordinarily be "curtailed" and thus wasted. Surely this is a good thing. I can't think of many countries that are not adopting more and more renewables, and I don't believe this is purely for ideological reasons. Of course, there might be glitches along the way, as there have been with all developing technologies. Aviation is only safe and cheap now because in earlier times, people saw the potential and pushed on solving problems as they went. Going back to 20th-century technology is not the way to go. We can argue points back and forth here, but the point is renewables are growing, and will continue to grow.

So why do you have panels on your roof? If you are actually getting 50 cents a kWh, then your retailer is making a loss with every kWh you export. Who is paying for this?

A little vague and perhaps misleading. Yes, the government will take investment from super funds that wish to invest. My super fund Ethical Investments does not invest in military areas. It does raise the question of what returns could be expected if your Super fund decides to invest in defence areas. Igf returns are poor, people will vote with their feet. When the above post says "the government wants to tap in to $4+ trillion dollars of super" it makes it sound like they are going to rip out this money from your super. As far as I can see, they are offering opportunities to invest and it is up to the various super funds to make a commercial decision as to whether that is the best way to invest., Areas of investment are likely to be shipyards and submarine infrastructure, Ports and logistics, advanced manufacturing AI etc.

I think that is a little optimistic. As far as we know the Ayatollah's more hard line son is now in charge. The Iranian people are still suffering. The Straights of Hormuz that used to be open is now closed it restricted possibly triggering a world recession. Trumps approval rating plummeting.

Oil Refinery Fires in Australia 2026 – Geelong Oil Refinery (Viva Energy) Large fire with explosions; burned ~13 hours; no injuries. 2018 – Kwinana Oil Refinery (BP) Fire in processing unit; contained; no major injuries. 2004 – Kwinana Oil Refinery (BP) Fire and explosion during maintenance; several injuries. 1994 – Clyde Refinery (Shell) Processing unit fire; limited injuries. 1984 – Port Stanvac Refinery (ExxonMobil) Operational fire; contained. 1970s–2010s – Altona Refinery (ExxonMobil) Multiple minor fires; no major catastrophic event.

Spot prices being zero or even negative are not just a thing since renewables. Negative spot prices are not new and actually occurred regularly before the rise of renewables. While renewables are now the primary driver of their frequency, the core cause has always been system inflexibility—the inability of certain power plants to shut down when demand is low. www.agora-energiewende.org +2 Why Negative Prices Occurred Before Renewables Historically, negative prices typically happened at night when demand was at its lowest. Coal Plant Inflexibility: Large coal-fired power stations have a "minimum generation" level they must maintain to keep their turbines spinning. Cost of Restarting: It is often cheaper for a coal plant to pay to stay online (selling at a negative price) than to undergo the slow and expensive process of shutting down and restarting a boiler. Technical Necessity: Some "must-run" units are required to stay online to provide grid stability or heat for local networks, forcing them to bid negatively during low-demand periods just to guarantee they aren't turned off. Australian Energy Council +4

How is it grid mismanagement?

I believe there was an explosion and fire at this refinery in 1961 (before my time). 2 fatalities and 2 injuries

Interesting article regarding feed in tariffs. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-16/australian-solar-feed-in-tariffs-have-plunged-99-per-cent/104986534

There are schemes that are making electricity free for everyone for 3 hours a day whether they have solar or not. I don't know about the rest of the country but in Vic I think this starts in October. This is courtesy of home rooftop solar and it's benefits go to everyone including people who can't afford solar or who rent Starting from July and October 2026, millions of Australian households (specifically NSW, QLD, SA, and VIC) can opt into new energy plans offering 3 hours of free electricity daily, generally around 11 am – 2 pm or 12 pm – 3 pm. The initiative leverages excess solar power, enabling savings on appliances, heating, and electric vehicle charging. Premier of Victoria +5 Key Details on Free Electricity Offers When: Federal Solar Sharer Offer (SSO) begins 1 July 2026 in NSW, SA, and SE Queensland. The Victorian Midday Power Saver begins 1 October 2026. How it Works: The "free" window is typically in the middle of the day (e.g., 11 am - 2 pm). It is an opt-in, voluntary scheme that requires a smart meter. Who is Eligible: Households with or without solar panels, including renters, can sign up. Savings: Projections suggest annual savings of up to $300, or more if electric vehicle (EV) charging or battery storage is shifted to these hours. Caps: Some plans, such as those discussed in the SSO, may cap free electricity usage at roughly 24 kWh per day. Existing Options: Some retailers already offer similar, specialized plans, such as OVO Energy's "Free 3" plan (11 AM to 2 PM) and GloBird Energy's "FOUR4FREE" plan. How to Maximize the 3 Free Hours Shift Usage: Run dishwashers, washing machines, and dryers during the free window. Pre-cool/Heat: Use air conditioning or heating to adjust home temperatures when it's free. Charge Devices: Charge electric vehicles (EVs) and portable batteries during this time. Hot Water: Use a timer on electric hot water systems to heat during the free period. Time Out +4

That is pretty lucky for you. I would suggest that the majority of systems are on a much worse deal. The fact is that in early days of roof top solar the grid really needed as much as could get. Now there is more rooftop solar than often is required. This is where batteries or EVs come in. My electricity bills are kept low by utilizing solar electricity during the day. Dishwasher, washing machine, hot water are all scheduled for day time. Next year I intend to get an EV so my excess will go into the vehicle and also I can draw back with V2L. Back to your main point. Because I and most recent rooftop installations are only getting a few cents a kWh and have export limits I would suggest that these people are paying the network costs. If you are getting 50 cents a kWh then you are an example of the problem you illustrating.