M61A1

Perhaps you should take a couple of steps to the right before you fall off the edge Marty. Information online refers to The Sun as "centre-right".

For the DV articles, search Bettina Arndt, she quotes figures from many sources and will openly give the references. As for the other, it's not about collective guilt, it's about openly distancing yourself from the people doing stuff in your name.

Aaah, but I have and I do speak out against DV, and I can point in the direction of some very good stats. I can go on for hours about DV and the media misrepresentation that it's almost all male on female (it's actually close to 50/50). It's a sore point for me. Have a good read of some of Bettina Arndt's articles. That said, I am not a leader by any means and I congratulate any muslim leader that speaks out against violence committed in the name of their religion. I have seen a few ,but not many, and to be fair that may be the fault of the media,but considering that mainstream media with a few exceptions around here are very left leaning, you would think that if it happened, they would make front page news of it. Of those that I have seen, I have admired their courage to speak out, and taken some solace in their words. I find it odd also that feminists have any tolerance for islam, as you would know, pretty much all Islamic countries have very poor record as far as women's rights go.

I get what you're saying, but consider that there are quite a few catholics currently in court because they didn't speak up or stamp out abuse. We have celebrities, like racing drivers for example telling us how to drive responsibly. Islam is a pretty big thing, I'm fairly sure they could stump up some cash to reassure the community that the Koran doesn't really say they should kill us all if we won't convert, or at least they won't do that even if their holy book says so. Their silence says more than their words.

No, the fact that our system is easily rorted is not the fault of these people, however, they love to take the advantage, I was reading articles, just today about 15 of the 16 childcare rorters are Somalian or Sudanese. Lebanese are over represented in a lot of welfare payments. I don't like ANYONE rorting welfare. Full stop. 1. It makes it harder for those who need it. 2. We really can't afford more welfare 3. If you think we CAN afford more welfare, great YOU give it to a charity, but I'm not volunteering more cash. I don't buy your argument about "the right way"...I'm not suggesting that they trot on down to the local embassy (and I think you muddy the argument by suggesting as such), just that they respect the process, when they get here, if they must come by boat. That means not destroying your ID, not rioting or using any other bullsh1t blackmail (like trying to self harm by swallowing shampoo...good one ABC). A lot of them offered refuge in the US have told authorities, they don't WANT to go there. That tells me that conditions on Nauru aren't too bad. Is it so hard to comprehend that if they are trying to bypass the process, and bypassed several other options of escape, that their intentions are dodgy at best. Are you honestly telling me that you have never read an article in an Australian newspaper blaming the west for the fact that Islamic extremists don't like us? They were every second day there for a while, especially after the Lindt Café episode. As I have tried to make clear over and over....no problem with genuine refugees, and if they are a genuine refugee, I expect that they may be satisfied with a roof over your head, and knowing that they are safe, while they process their claim. If that's not good enough , then perhaps they aren't really refugees.

If someone is murdering in the name of your religion, claiming that it is written that this must be done, wouldn't that bother you enough to speak out? Putting it differently, if some rec flying pilots were giving us all a bad name, wouldn't you speak up? BTW....the extreme left do think that all middle aged white men a re dangerous...

It doesn't take many radicals to do a lot of damage. I think that our relatively tight (compared to EU) borders may be helping a lot. One thing I have noticed in the media over the last few years, is that the left screech loudly how we had it coming, but our supposedly moderate muslim community is generally very quiet on the matter. I would be a lot less concerned if every time some radical blew someone up (or was caught planning to) in the name of islam, the "moderate muslim community leaders, , made the effort to denounce and condemn the act. It happens sometimes, but in a very small way. In the same way that most of the media believed that Donny Trump was going to lose in a big way, I believe that most of our media don't how a clue about how dangerous a few of these radicals, or even the moderates can be. The other guys you mention, don't wear suicide vests, I imagine, because they don't belong to a religion that teaches you should kill all the infidels where they stand. I really don't give a damn what atrocities were committed by the west in the past, it wont end well if we use it as an excuse not to stand up for our way of life. Poor border control didn't work for the aborigines, and it won't for us.

I'm not saying don't let any in, I'm just saying that we need to be rather discerning about who we do let in... some of the reported behaviour , in my opinion, warrants instant denial of a visa and immediate deportation. If you want to come here, do it the right way and respect our rules and processes. On the topic of imams teaching violence, I have seen quite a few reported cases, but nothing ever comes of it while the left are busy telling us that it's our fault they want to kill us. We really don't want me to get going about how I feel about any religious school, or our easily rorted welfare system.

Yep read all that... the point seems to be missed, that I have no problem with genuine refugees. What I am failing to get across is that if having to wait while we go through the process is worse than what you were going through, then maybe where you were wasn't that bad, so maybe your refugee status is questionable. Exactly....pretty much anywhere else. Marty has just quoted a list of countries that are bad, yet it's all good to openly accept "asylum seekers" from all these places where everyone is bad. I really don't understand where the left come from....islam is great? Indonesia is good?, no wait it's bad, asylum seekers can't stop there, no wait again, they're so barbaric we don't even want to send live cattle there??? Could it be that they just want to go where the dumb westerners will give you everything for free?

The term "unlawful non-citizen " would appear awfully close to "illegal immigrant". The point is that if bypass several other countries to get here and deliberately destroy all your documentation, then crack a wobbly about the process required to thoroughly check you out, then, I would think one should be very wary.

C'mon Marty....not everything on the ABC is true, in fact most of their stories about "refugees", or correctly termed "illegal immigrants", are overly embellished. I was listening to one such story this morning, it was sickening. No, not what the detainees went through in detention, but the crap coming out of the interviewers mouth. Realistically, if spending some time being detained, being housed, fed and given medical attention, while they thoroughly check your credentials, is worse that what you left, then they aren't refugees. The very fact that they transited several other countries to get here, already says they aren't refugees.

That second definition is questionable....I read that Yorkshire men don' twerk.

Agreed...conspiracy theorists are in another realm. I'm not quite sure whether they are any better or worse than the chronically stupid, but I would guess (in regard to the video) that this is what happens when you try to meet quotas rather than reward merit. No...hypocrisy is not the sole criteria, but it's a good place to start.

And another nut job... Labor MP caught out on polls

Yes....the irony of being against gambling, but willing to bet their whole life on there being an afterlife.

If you read what I wrote, It's that realisation that you've waste part of your precious, short life trying to appease a non-existent god. Nothing to do with those that euphoric state of those who believe the most powerful being in the universe is listening to them. I will lighten up when religion is for adults only, not while they let people fill kiddies heads with it...it's called "grooming"

Well, my experience has been yours in reverse....I do not hate god, for he does not exist, I do however deplore those that go out and fill their children's minds with this garbage, so that they will keep on believing and raise their children to keep on believing. The day may come when YOU wake up and realise how much of your life you have thrown away, believing that there will be more afterwards, and begin to despise those that deceived you. There will be a rational explanation for praying and getting a result, but try telling that to someone who wont take the blinkers off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=andad_Rd2ZU

You can disagree about opinions...much harder to disagree about undisputable facts. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

I disagree.....

Did you really expect any different Phil? This is the internet y'know. On top of that, it's a bunch of pilots, the most pedantic bunch of argumentative pricks you will find anywhere, beside the religious.

Bill is entitled to his opinion about Trump, but when he says things like "I would run the country like I ran the unions", well, that bothers me .....a lot.

Actually if you a re running cattle (cheese) or growing grapes (wine), someone has cut it down. I know bugger all about forestry, but I am very familiar with the quarry industry. All the roads we drive on were quarried from somewhere, as is all the aggregate for the concrete in houses, shopping centres, kerbing etc. I work with a guy who was in the quarry industry in Tassie, and that is behind my comments. I read in a quarrying publication some years ago, that we use around 18 tonnes of aggregate for every person in the country, and if you think that you use no quarry products, think again, if you use a road or go to the shops, or have kerbing outside you house or a slab under it. Tourism is great, but when money's tight no-one goes anywhere..

Wow...Bex's point went so far above your head, you didn't even see it.

I wasn't suggesting that it was unique to the left. Just the hypocrisy of the left, preaching tolerance, then abandoning any tolerance when things don't go their way. The right don't preach tolerance, so no hypocrisy when they don't want to be tolerant. As far as your acquaintance and Labour voters, there are a few people on here who speak disparagingly of Lib or Hanson supporters, are they douchebags too? Maybe he had just finished reading about the crap Bill Shorten gets away with and was feeling a bit disturbed. I know I feel my blood pressure rising every time I hear him (Billy) speak.