octave

Why women Were not suitible for Manly occupations,(37 years ago)two males with strong arms to push the None powered controls.

I am not aware of the strength required to fly the eighties 737 but the issue would surely be one of strength, not sex. The requirement would surely being strong enough to do the job and this would surely be the test applied. All men are not stronger than all women.

the power-steering becomes to heavy for a small person to steer & the brakes went out as well,

A small person? So the restriction should have been against small people. You do understand that there is a huge overlap in size and strength within the sexes. I am not a weight lifter but there are female weightlifters.

Although I agree with the sentiment of the OP in the context in which I perceived it to be, I think we have to be careful what we mean my conservative and progressive. As with many things that label opposite viewpoints, these are often at the more entrenched end of the respective spectrums. There are the crusty conservatives and the radical progressives - each steeped in idelogy of their beliefs are for the better good (whatever we define as good). I consider myself a cautious progressive - I welcome the future, but in adopting it, we have to look at and as far as possible mitigate the risks (e.g. socioligical, environmental, physical, economic, etc). Unbridled progression can be as dangerous as crusty conservatism.

@octave - I hope whatever your recent adversity is, it has or will soon blow-over with little impact...

I basically agree with that. Firstly most of us are not one or the other but are on a spectrum I think society definitely needs both. We have always needed people who say "let's see what is the next valley" and those who say "but wait perhaps the next valley is full of danger and we have done ok in this valley in the past.

What I am pondering though is what does one or the other of these tendencies mean for the individual. By way of an example, I have a friend I have known for 37 years, he is in many ways very conservative (socially), in fact, I can't work out why we are still friends Many many years ago I remember when the first women were trying to become airline pilots. My view was why not, his view was they were unsuited for this job. Thirty years later and it is not an issue. I think my opinion still sounds ok but his now seems a little silly. Perhaps history is generally kinder to less conservative people???

This is a huge oversimplification but it seems that progress is something that happens anyway, sometimes the rate changes but mostly it still continues. Again this is simplifying a complex thing but I feel like it must be more rewarding to champian the future rather than the past or present. I guess what I am asking is this, what is it that makes being more conservative personally rewarding. Perhaps a dumb question that has no clear answer but which ideology is liable to lead to more personal happiness?

Not trying to have a go at anyone probably should not have used the word crusty but in my defence a) I was talking about me and b) it is not meant to be derogatory, I learned to fly from a crusty old CFI

@octave - I hope whatever your recent adversity is, it has or will soon blow-over with little impact.

Thanks, just dealing with ageing parents interstate who are getting unable to live in their own home. Flying back and forth to look after them.

What are you asking from the Conservatives?

I guess I was just interested in what makes other people tick. I thought it might make an interesting conversation.

Sorry, Octave, I was just poking fun at your implied stereotype of a "conservative", which, of course, can only look that way from your self professed progressive viewpoint.No offense intended.

 

Precluded? Put that down to "PEBKAC".

I wasn't offended at all, all good conversation.

So conservatives give me your pitch. Should I become a crusty old conservative?

I did not call conservatives 'crusty old" I asked whether I should become a conservative and being of a certain age I perhaps could be described as at least getting towards being old and crusty.

I defined progressivism from a personal point of view, outlining how I think it contributes to a happy life and I am merely asking what more conservative people believe are the personal benefits of conservatism are.

That precludes

That precludes.......... ?

It seems to me that many threads end up being a competition between conservatism and progressivism. Most of us do not have the power individually to steer the course

of our society. We can rant and rave but we still only have one vote. This got me to thinking about whether it is better for an individual to be one or the other. I consider myself to be happier than the average person. I don't know why this is but I do have some theories.

I thought it might be interesting to articulate why I believe it is easier to be progressive than conservative.

As a progressive, the future is not scary, in fact, I can't wait to see what will come in the near future. New ways to power our cars or our houses, bring it on. New aircraft, bring it on, etc.

In my work life, I meet people from many cultures and sexual identities and it is easy for me, I just accept them for how good of a friend they are or whether they are a good person to work with. Make 007 a woman, who cares as long as they do a good job.

At 57 I do not look back through my life and think it used to be better and has become worse, indeed my life is the best it has ever been despite some recent adversity.

Being progressive means that I am able to engage with younger people. My wife retired recently and we still meet her ex-colleagues for lunch or the pub. these are young intelligent people but they still invite us oldies out.

There is hardly any generation gap between me and my son (29). Although he lives overseas there is hardly a day when we don't chat.

As a progressive I believe that my views will be treated more kindly by history. When I read the writings of past progressives their views seem more palatable than the views of conservatives. Past progressives said yes give women the right to vote however the views of conservatives form this time seem primitive.

By contrast, it seems to me that if I were conservative I would be anxious about change and the future.

In my work life, I have young colleagues from different cultures, they do seem to like me and not consider me to be a grumpy old man to be avoided.

Although I don't regret much in my life I recognize that my life is easier and more fulfilling now than in the past.

So conservatives give me your pitch. Should I become a crusty old conservative?

Diversity/political correctness/equality strikes again. The next 007 will be a black woman. Ian Fleming must be spinning in his grave.

The role of this fictional character has been played by many different humans over the years. The 007 character has long ago diverged from the original concept. I would suspect that the producers are not making a political statement but rather they are adjusting the character as they have done before to cater to a more modern audience. It is simply good business.

", I voted against it as I considered it ridiculous, but it was passed and I can live with it, no problems. "I have yet to meet a Hetro who voted for it, seems strange All those Hetros were out-voted by such a small minority.

 

spacesailor

Clearly, the majority of heteros did vote for it. I am heterosexual but I voted for it. My philosophy is if I can extend a right that will make another person's life happier and not detract from my life then why would I not?

I am not on an aged pension but this does not mean I don't vote for governments who will increase the pension.

Homosexuality has always existed and always will. In the past, we debated whether a woman should be able to vote or whether mixed-race marriage was ok or not but those arguments now seem ridiculous as will same-sex marriage.

If my sister chooses to get married to her same-sex partner of 40 years I won't consider her or marriage as being ridiculous.

As someone who generally leans towards libertarianism, I am for people making their own decisions and for the government to only step in where there is a danger to others, such a danger has not been identified to me.

Shiraz has its compensations.

Indeed it does, at least on this we can agree.

I am Not in any way religious, Was a Follower of BBC, Now its ABC. LOL.To me, being sacked for stating a religious belief, smacks of the crusades, & the Hell the church of old put people through. Heretics All.

 

Were is our religious tolerance.

 

He's not upsetting people Not on Fakbook.

 

spacesailor

Wasnt he sacked after being warned by his employer that he was breaching his contract?

must have picked the wrong thread, Sorrry.spacesailor

No worries, have done the same myself (shiraz)

How Is being dismissed for your Free-Speech, Not being curtailed.If I stood on a high building & used a loud-hailer to shout "Christians come to church " I don't think I would last long before the opposition religion, shuts me down.

 

Isn't that curtailing my free speech. ( the opposition DO that in the UK.

 

you know who (In case I'm being watched)

He exceside

How Is being dismissed for your Free-Speech, Not being curtailed.If I stood on a high building & used a loud-hailer to shout "Christians come to church " I don't think I would last long before the opposition religion, shuts me down.

 

Isn't that curtailing my free speech. ( the opposition DO that in the UK.

 

you know who (In case I'm being watched)

He execised his free speech - fact, if not tell me how he did not.

His employer found this to be against their bussiness interests, this is their right.

Many people found this offensive, this is their right.

The employer deemed that he was in breach of this contract. - this will be tested in court

And that is the situation.

Look I undersatnd that you may be very religous and have certain views, I have no problem with that but many of us are not.

The right to free speech is not breached by people critisizing the view you have expressed.

Everyone has the right to express their opinion but thery have to man up and accept criticism from thois who disagree,

The Rotten Government have done the pensioners over again by give Deaming rate cuts to "superanueants" with with assets .

The second class pensioner is living hand to mouth, so have No assets to get interest from anywhere.

 

"The rates for a full Age Pension for Australian residents for the period 20 March 2019 to 19 September 2019 are Single: $926.20 per fortnight (approximately $24,081 per year) .

 

spacesailor

Not sure what this has to do with exporting solar power????...

Like our gas all the good prices go to overseas where most of the profits do too. Their last concern is for the people who live HERE. Nev

I guess if the locals under value an asset (sunshine) and dont wish to use it we may as well sell it to someone who will value it. Perhaps when the crusty old conservatives see another country bennifiting from our resource they may just start to think perhaps we should be exploitint it more.

After seeing the gay marriage event, which has ended up being a means of promoting LGBTQ or whatever it is and denying anyone the rights to disagree, I can see this a

I have posted here to avoid thread drift in the constituion thread.

How is LBGQTI being promoted?

This mans free speech is not being stopped.

My social media is somewhat tied in to my work. If I were to perhaps post on FB that I thought christians were morons (which I woudlnt anyway) I would most certainly expect to lose my job. Whether I like it or not I do somewhat represent my employer. I am smart enough and proffesional enough to understand this. It is not a curtailment of my free speech.

Sometimes you have to make a career choice, some careers come with extra responsabilities.

I have first hand experience from my sisters life of how tough it has been over many decades and the anguish she has suffered, Perhaps the fact now that she can now marry if she wants to is a cause of great anguish to you but we are not going back and most younger people have no problem with it.

When I satrted to live with my girlfriend (now my wife) the crusty old conservatives told me that living together was wrong and that it would cause society to collapse. Time has made these people look foolish.

Not all christians are bent out of shape by this.Tim Costello: 'Christians need to calm down' and 'suck it up' over alleged persecution

The kid is probably right that there are only two genders. Even if an hermaphrodite had a mix of xx and xy chromosome pairs, that's still just a combination of two genders. No third type of chromosome pair. He was making the point that all other claimed genders are just personal identification and not true genders.

I think that was the point he was making. His argument was not about dicks or no dicks. He was basing it on science.

The terms sex and gender are often confused. Sex is biological and gender is a social construct. Sex and gender distinction - Wikipedia

Interestingly other cultures have different definitions eg native Americans.

There are suprisngly few situation that actually require knowledge of someones chromosomes.

All I've kept saying is if you cover your face you can't be recognized. Some aren't allowed to. Why not all? Aren't all people equal before the Law? Nev

I agree. My point is the assumption that the law does not apply to everyone. I am unaware of any difference in the law for different groups perhaps there is but I can't find it.

Moslems who refuse to show their faces or stand in court for the judge.

My understanding is that this was settled some time ago Woman cannot give evidence in a niqab, Australian court rules

Here is how my view may differ. If there is an assertion that the law is different for some people or the law is being applied differently then I need more than hearsay. It may be entirely true in which case I would agree that it is out of order but we also have to be careful we don't jump at straw men.

We often hear the "we should ban the burqa" or whatever as if it is this huge widespread problem and I ask myself how many Australian Muslim women actually wear it. For 7 years I live in an apartment that overlooked the Newport mosque in Melbourne. Not once did I see the full female getup. I have seen it once in Footscray, once in a shopping centre and once on a train in Sydney.

The point is if someone says Muslims are refusing to stand in court or uncover their face when appropriate I need to know if this is a total myth or partially true or widespread. A search of these topics reveals very few cases.

Not bashing anyone, Marty. Just protesting about the flagrant disrespect for our national institutions by a tiny minority of people we welcomed here; people who want to replace our legal system with the one which helped turn their homelands into such a mess that they came here to live...

Perhaps we should quantify this small number of people in order the intelligently and rationally gage the magnitude of this problem. Perhaps we should direct our anger at these specific people rather than a group of whom the majority are good law abiding citizens.

To put it another way what percentage of a group must exhibit a particular negative behaviour before we can generalize. Is the percentage of Muslins who refuse to stand in court or show face a greater or lesser thane the percentage of men who rape women? Can we make generalizations about men? I know it may be tiresome but I make my judgements an individuals behaviour.

As usual, I call anyone out who does not supply evidence for their assertion.

I don't have a problem about who does what with who. I just cannot understand why we have to be told about it.A couple of days ago the ABC was extatic about the first openly gay female member of parliament. Who cares?

Are you saying we should not be told about that?

My sister spent years not able to discuss her relationship lest she be accused of forcing it on those around her. All she wanted was the right to talk about her partner in exactly the way her colleagues did, that's all.

Since it is now justifiably ridiculous to be blatantly anti-gay we have moved to a situation where those who are uncomfortable about it have now moved to a position of saying it is ok but I shouldn't have to know about it. Yenn if it doesn't bother you, why does a news story about a gay politician seem to bother you?

Not enough water in the Torrens to drown someone ?.

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Well I agree with the conservatives about nuclear power. We in Australia should have the cheapest power in the world. Instead we have the most expensive. I blame the "safety" and green lots for this.But you will get no argument from me about the need to protect people like homo's and unionists. I do reckon though that homo's are better protected now than they were 50 years ago. I remember a lecturer called Duncan who was thrown into the Torrens by the Vice squad of the day. Duncan drowned and the vice squad got off. This whole thing would not happen today, thank goodness.

It was George Duncan. Growing up in Adelaide this was one of my early memories. He was murdered in 1972 when I was 10. Murder of George Duncan - Wikipedia

I simply don't understand why some people are so insecure that they have a problem with who has a relationship with who. Same-sex marriage has been deemed acceptable by the majority and is entirely legal. Anyone is entitled to express their inability to cope with reality but they must accept the criticism that they may attract.

Reading what Sam Clench said I wonder how the religious books and preachers can get away with their outpourings. It was words from the Bible that caused all this furore, but nobody seems to be saying that the bible should be banned, just that Israel Folau should not quote it.

An employer sought to enforce their interpretation of a contract with an employee. This will be tested in court The employee concerned was warned several times and knew the conditions of his contract Many jobs come with an obligation not to embarrass their employer. That is the long and short of it. I as someone who works with children would probably lose my job if my public utterances were considered to have a negative effect on my employers reputation. If this is unacceptable to me then I would consider earning my living in a different way.

People who are unhappy with this situation need to consider two issues. The first issue is whether or not the interpretation of the contract is legal. This can only really judged by a court and will be unless there is an out of court settlement. Secondly does an employer have the right to expect their employee to adhere to a code of conduct? My first job was in the RAAF. I knew when I signed up that I was expected not to embarrass my employer or speak to the media etc. If I had wanted to go to an anti-war protest I would have had to choose between this and my job.

This fellow was not denied free speech, he said his piece.

Yes, the younger generation is wealthier, but does it enjoy a stress-free lifestyle? I think that's where the Australian lifestyle we enjoyed in our youth has gone. It seems to me that our young people are intent on scrambling over each other to make loads of money, which they use to gratify themselves immediately. Ask those youngsters you know when was the last time they made up a picnic of sandwiches, small tasties and the makings of a hot drink and went out to relax in the open air. They'll probably tell you that they would prefer to spend the day at a cafe with a view, eating and drinking nouveau cuisine or its current equivalent.

I know that we bemoan the lack of employment in traditional occupations, but these youngsters are creating new occupations. Although my thought is that these new occupations seem to concentrate on ways to separate others of their generation from their money.

I think young people are as diverse as our age group. I think some in our age group are obsessed with money. I have just moved to early semi-retirement but I do have some friends who believe they can't do the same because they feel they need the cram more money into their super.

I keep in contact with many of my ex-music students and it seems that may not picnic as much but they do travel and not just to the obvious tourist spots. I am following on FB the trip of a young woman I used to teach as she travels through Costa Rica and other interesting places that I would not have dreamed of visiting when I was her age. Not all young people are sitting in cafes with a plate of smashed avo.

I am thankful (and maybe a little jealous) that my son does not earn his living from a tradition occupation.