octave

My son's partner is Chinese, although now a New Zealander. We met her for the first time when they visited a couple of years ago. We cooked a meal together. She taught us how to make traditional Chinese veges and this great spicy mashed potato and we showed her how to cook kangaroo correctly. Being her first time in Australia, she was keen to pet a kangaroo and eat one.

Actually thinking about it and allowing for the nuances of translation, this does make sense. I believe that aged beef is a thing in our culture also beef with a lot of fat, such as wagyu. There is a little something lost in the translation, though.

mmm deleted- mysterious double post

He did actually have donkey meat for breakfast - true story

So my son is in China at the moment. He sends me interesting pictures every day, but this one did make me laugh

been talking about it for as long as the Epstein files have been in the headlines

Why China Is Quietly Winning At EV Battery Recycling

More perverse than "I grab them by the pussy" More perverse than telling a very young girl (about 8 years old "I will be dating you in about 10 years. More perverse than being found civilly liable for sexual assault. More perverse than calling Epstein a terrific guy. I could go on and on.

Fair enough. We will just have to agree to disagree

Yes I get that, and I am in a similar situation with my mother. The majority of scam emails come whether or not you get letters delivered to your letter box. This is just the nature of email. Prior to me taking over my mother's affairs, she did everything by mail and yet, like the rest of us received plenty of dodgy emails. Sure, an email falsely tied to a business you may be dealing with can look more convincing. I believe it is not uncommon for stolen mail to be the entry point for many scammers. From Scamwatch "A stolen mail scam involves criminals intercepting physical mail (like bank statements, credit cards, or personal documents) to steal your identity and money, often using stolen info for fraudulent purchases or opening new accounts, and sometimes they follow up with phishing texts/emails impersonating legitimate services (like AusPost or myGov) to get more details; to protect yourself, use lockable mailboxes, report theft to police/Scamwatch, and be wary of suspicious links claiming to be from official sources. How Stolen Mail Scams Work Physical Theft: Criminals steal mail, especially from unsecured mailboxes, to find credit cards, bank details, and personal info. Fraudulent Use: They use stolen cards to buy expensive items (like designer goods) or open new accounts. Phishing Follow-up: They send fake texts or emails (e.g., pretending to be Australia Post or Services Australia) with links to fake websites to steal login details after the initial mail theft. " As a Government Business Enterprise AusPost is expected to be self-funded. I totally agree. This IS what is happening in Denmark. There is a social obligation that Postnord has to ensure that there is a letter service. If no one else will provide it, then Postnord will have to resume doing it. I definitely would not be in favour of Australia Post stopping letter deliveries if there were no viable alternatives. If I get information posted to my physical mailbox from the tax department, and it gets stolen or I throw it out without shredding it, and it is used to help steal my identity or some other fraud I suspect I might be culpable to some degree. If I go to MyGov or my bank and my details are compromised, it is not my fault unless I have broken the rules That is a tad judgey. We are considering going on holiday to NZ and staying for 6 months, just bumming around in a campervan. I suppose I could give a neighbour a key to my letter box and perhaps ring them each week to see if there are any bills for me, or I could go on managing my life whilst travelling. My son owns a company with about 6 full-time employees, some live locally, but some work remotely. They are not going to post a letter about what tasks need to be finished that day. A couple of years ago, my son spent 6 months in the US. He still needed to work and communicate with the rest of the company. At the moment he is in Beijing, touring but also getting some work done. The very nature of his work means that he has contractors overseas. A letter just is not going to cut it. For many things, the snail part of snail mail is a problem; things move faster these days. In both of the above examples, there are risks and rewards. Both we, and my son understand online safety, sure we could get fooled by an elaborate scam but again risk and rewards, not just being silly, naive or lazy people. Now of course, there are elderly folks who are not connected, or maybe just don't like the idea. That is absolutely fine. There should always be a service for them. I can't see that this must be a government enterprise. Both federal and state governments subsidise air routes. In the old days, of course, we had government-owned TAA. Again, referring to my initial post, nobody is being forced online. The number of Danish folk already online, of course, is higher than in most countries (I wonder if they have more fraud?) In life we weigh up risks and rewards. It is no doubt safer to fly interstate, but sometimes a road trip is fun while recognising the risk (some people even ride motorbikes)

Here is a succinct summary (including pros and cons) of the Danish situation. The surprise to me is that there are more 18 to 34-year-olds sending letters than oldies. Denmark's state-run postal service, PostNord, has ended its national letter delivery after over 400 years, making it the first country in the world to fully phase out the service. The move, which became official at the end of December 2025, reflects the nation's high level of digitalization and a 90% decline in letter volumes since 2000. Key Drivers and Commentary Digital Dominance: Denmark is one of the world's most digitalized countries, with 97% of people aged 15 and over using digital identification platforms and most official communications, such as bills and bank statements, handled electronically. Many Danes rarely, if ever, send a physical letter. Economic Viability: The drop in volume from 1.5 billion letters in 2000 to just 110 million last year made the service no longer profitable. New legislation in 2024 opened the market to competition and added VAT to stamps, causing prices to skyrocket to over $4 per standard letter, which further accelerated the decline. Shift to Parcels: PostNord has pivoted to focus exclusively on the growing e-commerce parcel delivery market. Global Precedent: The situation is being watched by postal services worldwide, including Australia Post and the UK's Royal Mail, which are also grappling with declining letter volumes and exploring service changes. Social Impact and Alternatives Job Losses: The decision resulted in approximately 1,500 job cuts at PostNord. Vulnerable Populations: Advocacy groups like DaneAge have raised concerns that elderly people and those in remote areas who rely on physical mail for important communication, such as hospital appointments, may be disadvantaged by the shift. Private Sector Steps In: Danish law mandates that a letter service must remain available. A private company, DAO, has taken over letter delivery, expanding its services to fill the gap. Letters must now be dropped off at a DAO shop or a fee paid for home collection. Cultural Shift: The end of the 400-year-old tradition has been described as a "difficult decision" but inevitable. The iconic red mailboxes have been removed and many were eagerly snapped up by the public and museums when put up for auction, highlighting the sentimental value of the physical mail era. Niche Interest: Interestingly, some research from DAO suggests younger generations (18-34) send more letters than older groups, seeing physical mail as a more personal, "old school" alternative to digital communication. Sentimentality vs. Utility: While many Danes have pragmatically accepted the change, some observers note that the scarcity of physical mail has increased its perceived emotional value for personal messages like love letters or holiday cards. Sentimentality vs. Utility: While many Danes have pragmatically accepted the change, some observers note that the scarcity of physical mail has increased its perceived emotional value for personal messages like love letters or holiday cards.

Just thinking about how I operate in terms of mail. As far as government communications, that is in my MGov account. I may get an email that tells me there is a message (with no sensitive information) in MyGov, which I can then log into. This requires multi-factor authentication. At no point does any sensitive information sit in my physical mail box for 3 weeks while I am on my holiday. We wouldn't mind hitting the road for 6 months or more. I do not often get an actual bill in my email. For my electricity (which is by direct debit anyway), I get an email saying my bill is due on a certain day (again, no sensitive info in email). I would then generally go to the company's portal and check my usage to make sure it is correct. For my rates I would get an email reminder of when they are due, again I go into the council portal and pay online. This also applies to vehicle rego and licence. Recently, I had work done on my rooftop solar. Likewise, this is done within their portal. The only thing I can think of in recent times is repairs to my Aircon after which they phoned me and sent an account through Email. I think we may be a little off track. There are many reasons people are not using the letter system. It is not all about email. My mother used to write letters to our relatives overseas. I can clearly remember retrieving the blue aerogram from England from the letter box.. These days, most of her relatives are dead and buried; however, she communicates with her best friend of over 70 years via video call. My son and partner are in China at the moment, and they will not send a postcard, but every day he will message us a whole bunch of great pictures. When my son is at home in NZ we will chat via Messenger or video call. I cant actually remember the last time I needed to post a letter. If everyone resumed receiving bills and official letters by snail mail, I don't think it would have much of an effect on the economics of letter delivery. So, back to bills how many bills are just sent as an email rather than just a prompt to sign into your account? In any case, I am going to pay online anyway. I believe in Denmark that for those who want to use snail mail, the service will still be available, but by a company contracted to fulfil the mandated obligation. Having a postie ride/drive down every road to deliver very few letters is just too inefficient. I think the bottom line is that the number of physical letters being posted has dropped heavily and will continue to decline. The price of delivering a letter can only really go up. I am not against subsidisation (to a point), and I assume you believe this also. Weighing off the risk of email fraud, billions of emails are sent every day, and most of them are not bills etc. If all bills and official documents communications return to snail mail, it won't really make a dent on the number of emails sent and received; each of these probably does carry some very small risk. I do believe the way I run my personal admin is relatively safe, and I can't see any significant risk. Am I missing something? My view is that as it becomes more and more financially untenable, we keep a private service going for older folk (this need will pass) or those who feel uncomfortable with digital methods. Do you believe this must be carried out by the official postal service? Outside of the city, mail is usually delivered by a contractor anyway. I don't believe the old-fashioned postie, going down every road to deliver a very small number of articles, should be done at any cost (financially, environmentally, etc.). Parcels are not only delivered by Auspost there are many delivery companies competing to deliver to me, why not the same with letters?

As usual, these discussions prompt me to do some research. Whilst there are plenty of online scams, there are also scams involving physical mail theft. One particular scheme involves stealing a bill from a letter box and reprinting it with different bank details. Physical bills can be used in ID fraud. If you are receiving physical bills, you ought to shred them before disposal Advice from Victorian Police Delivery and Mail Security says: Minimise the amount of mail delivered to your home by: Not having bank or utility documents sent by post. Instead, have them sent by email.

I came for the discussion but stayed for the "untitting"

I would wager that 90% of items on Amazon come from China anyway. I am not criticising, but being principled is not often straightforward.

I guess there are different levels of security. As far as correspondence from the government goes, mine doesn't come to my physical mail box or my email box; it is sent to my MYGov account, which has pretty stringent security (dual authentication, etc.). This is where I receive anything to do with tax, social security, Medicare, etc. To me, this seems safer than a letter. hanging out of my mailbox. As far as official letters go our drug-dealing neighbours (that we gave evidence against and eventually had thrown out) got numerous eviction letters delivered, they simply threw them away and claimed that the letters never arrived. When there was a registered letter, they would simply not answer the door. The deliverer would then leave a card telling them to pick up the letter from the post office. Of course, they claimed they did not get it. I would suspect that the right kind of expert could tell if an email had been sent and when and where it was opened. These house is still empty, however, the mailbox is overflowing with all sorts of official mail I don't think necessarily "lazy" We have to travel interstate regularly to do things for my mother, who is in care. Sometimes we need to go on short notice. It is comforting to know that I do not need to think about what bills may be falling due. I can continue to administer my financial empire (such as it is) from interstate or even overseas. On top of that I also have power of attorney over my mother, who, as I say, lives interstate. It's no good her getting letters because she can no longer act on them. She does get government communications to her MyGov (which we have access to, but even the most benign letter would send her into a panic. We now sign into her email and check before she does, and we can remove the things that are unimportant and may panic her. Doing this at her mail box (at the home) could be done, and in fact, sometimes they do forward her mail to us. A good example is that although she is in a home, she still needs ambulance cover. Early last year, she had to be transferred to hospital. Later, she received a large bill. She rang us in a panic, wondering why they charged her when she has insurance. My wife and I decided that we could not remember paying it. It turns out that the renewal was sent to her old address. I am thinking we neglected to change the address. This might make us sound dumb, but taking over someone else's administration is stressful and complicated, especially when that person can't tell you what needs to be done. Email follows you even when you do change your physical address. Now most of her admin can be done online or by direct debit. It would be a nightmare to rely on letters in this case. As far as I know, as long as I use common sense (which seems to have worked so far) any fraud is pretty much not my problem. Just to reiterate, I am not lobbying to have Australia Post. I don't hide behind my mailbox and throw stones at the posties as they go past. People are not being forced to use digital (as far as I can see), but rather the Post Office is under pressure BECAUSE most of us don't post regular letters. The situation in Denmark is not leaving people or the government with no letter service, but the social obligation is being handed to a private company which will have to work out a way to provide the service. I dont see why this must be done by Australia post any more than the government owning an airline. The government still subsidises airlines on unpopular routes I don't see why a similar arrangement could not apply to the mail. If using email is too dangerous (which I don't generally believe) then isn't the answer to further improve online security? As I said I do everything that I can online. However, my credit card just modernised their online app (thank god, new one is great) but my preference for no paper was somehow reversed (changed back now) I received a paper monthly statement, much to my dismay. Firstly, it seems to be printed on exremely high quality paper and it went straight into the recycling. Most importantly, I check my accounts and credit card every Friday. I buy everything on my credit card and then zero it out on Friday. I need to know the balance on Friday afternoon. I don't want to wait a month plus postage time so that i can balance my accounts and check for fraud. Fraud is more easily detected early rather than late I don't have a problem with a certain amount of cross-subsidy, however, if at some time in the future the posty rides down my road, which may have 100 or so houses on it and only delivers one letter, I'm sure you would agree that that is a luxury we can't really afford

Not really. We lived on 44 acres `17 KM from a town called Braidwood. Those mailboxes are at a village called Mongarlowe 4km from our place. As you can see from the small number of mailboxes, the population of Mongarlowe village is quite low. During the early gold rush days, the population was around 30000, I think, and there were pubs and shops etc. Now, no miners, just hippies, artists, musicians and retired CSIRO scientists. Our property was exactly 100km from the centre of Canberra

Since Australia is a large country, postage has always been tailored to our spread-out population in terms of economics. I just did a search for a picture of my old letter box from the property where I lived from 1990 to 2011. My ex letter box is on the far left. It is made from a barrel we found on our property when we bought it in 1990. It is made of plastic. This picture was apparently taken in 2019, and I am amazed that this plastic barrel has not had to be replaced. This mailbox was 4km from our property. We used to get our mail delivered 3 days a week by an old guy called Sid, who tendered for the contract and I suspect was really being ripped off. Living out there, we accepted that a daily mail delivery was not viable. If we are going to continue letter deliveries, it is going to have to be perhaps on a weekly basis, or the prices are going to have to rise. Half a billion dollars is a lot of money for something that can generally be done a cheaper way.

I am not sure which sites you mean; however, I have bought ludicrously small purchases from China. I do find it intriguing how it can be profitable for them. I bought a volt meter for $8.72 with free postage. Hell, I spend more than that on a cup of coffee at my favourite cafe.

N We had to put my mother in care a couple of years ago. She lives in SA, and we live in Vic. We make a supreme effort to visit for a week four times a year. Although I would not call her computer literate (she is about to turn 93), she is able (with a lot of help from us 😒) to video call us and her friend of 70 years in the UK. The other "inmates" at her home do not use tech and are of the opinion that they are too old, which I find very sad. As people age, it may get harder to "keep up", but it's the way to ensure happiness in old age.

I did recently purchased a couple of items from Temu. I have always had,I have had a negative vibe towards Temu; however, they had what I needed at a great price, so I gave it a try, being that the risk was low. It turned out well. I bought a 12-volt meter and some Anderson plugs. The items arrived quickly and are definitely genuine, and at a third of the local cost. Note this is not a recommendation; you need to do your own homework. I do recognise my hypocrisy, - "down with Bezos and other evil billionaires and rights for workers, etc., but it is so cheap and efficient."

I use Amazon quite a lot, and I have had no problems. There is an Amazon warehouse nearby, and sometimes items are delivered extremely quickly. The thing with these sales methods are that Amazon represents many small businesses. I usually make sure I read reviews before I buy something. I am a member of Amazon Prime TV, so postage is free. Many of these sites are pretty sneaky in tricking you into signing up for membership. This happened to me with Kogan recently. There was a charge of around $120 for a premier membership. I was pretty pissed off, however, since I use PayPal they are very good at getting your money back. On this occasion, I was able to send a message directly to Kogan. I said that I did not recall signing up for this and that it should not be so easy to mistakenly do this. I also said that I often shop with Kogan, and how they handle my complaint would determine whether I ever buy from them again. I received a full refund within 24 hours.

Just to be clear, the Danish situation is not that you won't be able to send a standard letter. It is that the public postage system will no longer do it a private company will. There is also a law in Denmark that says the public post system must guarantee that either they or a private company must fulfil this service. It comes down to whether we think one part of the postal system (parcel delivery) should subsidise a loss-making part of the business. I have been looking through some figures, and it seems the average price to process and deliver a letter is around $2.80. However, a stamp is only $1.70. The problem is that as fewer standard letters are sent, the delivery costs don't go down much; the postman has to travel down a given street whether they deliver 1 letter or 20. In 2024, delivering standard letters cost almost half a billion dollars. The government does not subsidise this senders of parcels do. I am not necessarily against subsidies, but I do think we need to always be looking for more efficient and sustainable practices. The number of letters posted is dropping dramatically. Whereas once perhaps a posty would have a letter for perhaps 9 out of 10 houses, these days it might be 1 in 10. My point is, as this figure drops, do we pay half a billion a year to deliver to 1 in 100 houses, or do we find another way?

I think the point is that these things (government letters, etc.) are already largely being done electronically, and therefore little demand for letter services. In Denmark, it is not a case of having to change these functions to digital because the mail is stopping, but they are stopping the mail because these things are already being done digitally. Even in Australia (and I presume Britain), most of these functions are already done digitally. In the Danish situation, their post office is still delivering parcels, which is a growing and profitable area. I imagine they could also deliver documents. I think the question is a what point does the traditional postie become unsustainable.