DonRamsay

I was only in China 3 weeks but covered 8,500 kms. What I saw was the Han Chinese being proud of their minorities. The minorities get lots of concessions and are not bound by the one child policy in the same way as the Han people are. There is an attempt to have a universal language, Mandarin, for the whole country. This is not at the expense of local languages and dialects. Last count I heard was a slight majority speak Mandarin. If you understand that there are around 50 million members of the Communist Party and 1,250 million non members you get a picture of people getting on with life not rabid commos. Bex's comments on the Uighurs are very instructive and totally credible and consistent with the culture of those who follow the self described "Religion of Peace" around the world. I'm sure OldKorealah was like the rest of us, taken in by the anti communist USA media.

The Chinese have been very accomodating of the minorities, essentially non Han people. Although the Chinese Muslims copped a bit of flack during the Cultural Revolution, in the end they were protected by Chou En Lai. ouighas have been very violent for some time. This is the default for the "religion of peace" it would seem.

I lived in Wagga for a couple of years and still remember the winters. The time before last I was in Canberra I had ridden in on my motorbike en route to Phillip Is. That would have made it mid October. I stayed at a motel overnight and the next morning when I staggered outside it was zero degrees Celsius. Jumped on the bike and road to Cooma. As you might expect Cooma was even bloody colder. Oh well, now I go by air with a nice litle CO heated cockpit .

Congratulations Ian! Don't forget your battery powered electric socks.

Oh Dear . . . clear evidence that the only way to defeat fundamental ignorance is education. But, in many cases, re-education is impossible so deeply imbedded is the bullshit. Very sad that they'll pass all this on to the next generation. Only way to defeat islamic fundamentalism is to starve it of money by driving electric cars and watch the price of oil drop to near zero.

While I have been a long term supporter of the Libs and continue to be for their sound economic management approach, the insistence by Tony Abbott of religious ministers and banning ethics teachers was the final straw. Now I can't wait for him to be gone. Last thing we need in Australia is politicians using their position to try and turn Australia into a theocracy.

A man suffered a serious heart attack while shopping on holiday abroad. The shopkeeper called an ambulance when she saw him collapse to the floor. The paramedics rushed the man to the nearest hospital where he had emergency open heart bypass surgery. He awoke from the surgery to find himself in the care of nuns at a Catholic Hospital. A nun was seated next to his bed holding a clipboard loaded with several forms, and a pen. She asked him how he was going to pay for his treatment. "Do you have health insurance?" she asked. He replied in a raspy voice, "No health insurance." The nun asked, "Do you have money in the bank?" He replied, "No money in the bank." Do you have a relative who could help you with the payments?" asked the irritated nun. He said, "I only have a spinster sister, and she is a nun." The nun became agitated and announced loudly, "Nuns are not spinsters! Nuns are married to God." The patient replied, "Perfect. Send the bill to my brother-in-law."

I suggested something like that about 1,500 posts back but I still can't seem to take my own sound advice. I have found it a great test for my own ideas. I like my prejudices or earlier conclusions to be challenged. Many may be quite surprised to know I enjoy an argument . Not bickering but looking hard and challenging poor logic and "facts" that are really just opinions. True, not many contributors have shifted their position but there have over 17,300 views of this thread. Plenty of lurkers watching from the sidelines and despite this all being "Aviation Laughter" it has been a pretty serious discussion. I have reached a stage in my life, known as "grumpy old man" where I find it very difficult to have something I strongly disagree with presented to me as "Gospel" and not challenge it. I will never again sit back and accept belief over scientific method. Logic must triumph over faith otherwise we might as well give up on science based medicine and go back to consulting shrews in the forest at midnight. This has been a challenge of enlightenment against superstition. It is a battle that will go on as long as people want to take the easy certain way of taking somebody's word for nonsense over, well, facts and logic.

Turbo, that video does not apply to you nor was it addressed to somebody like yourself who seeks evidence and questions everything. It *was* addressed to the extreme Christian fundamentalists like Gnarly who like to look down on atheists because they accept scientific method over hereditary belief systems and are destined for Hell. Surely if it is fair for Gnarly to tell me, based on his belief system, tha I won't be going to Heaven, it is fair for me, using the exact same source, that he won't be going to Heaven either. Surely, I would be doing him a disservice to allow him to be deceived into thinking he was going to Heaven (a heaven that does not last forever). I know, don't call me Shirley.

So, Gnarly and all true believers, anything in the following that you disagree with? Are you happy that you are wasting your time as you can't according to the Bible get to Heaven?

Mea culpable. Of course you are right there Nev. My dislike of Anna trying to frankify her Slavic surname offends me. And the slavish adoption of the "palashay" distortion by the left leaning media is similarly annoying but not of any relevance in the real world. Although Newmn expressed it poorly, the CFMEU thing though should not be completely discounted. There is a clear and real link from bikie gangs to the CFMEU and from there the CFMEU has strong links into the ALP power structure. That should be a concern for all.

Must be about time for some more offensive humour? [ATTACH]47546._xfImport[/ATTACH]

Turbo you should be very careful of roflmao - not only could you end up assess but at your elevated seniority you might find it impossible to get up.

[ATTACH]47543._xfImport[/ATTACH] Who the hell is Guy Penrod? No resemblance? [ATTACH]47542._xfImport[/ATTACH]

Gnarly, Gnarly, Gnarly . . . will you never give up on trying to make non-believers into believers in not believing? Can't you ever see the illogicality of saying Atheism is a belief system? Can you not concede that Evolution is a Scientific Theory not an hypothesis or are you so uneducated that you don't know the difference? You don't have to accept the Scientific Theory you just can't logically deny that Scientists have accepted it as a Scientific Theory. Can you give me the address of one Church of Atheism meeting on a Sunday? " life has no meaning or purpose and there will be no future judgement of their actions" Atheists have more purpose in this life because it is the only one they have. They won't be judged in the next life but there are plenty of uncharitable Christians prepared to give summary judgement in this life. "fundamental atheists are very intolerant" only of God Botherers claiming tax exemptions because of their imaginary friend. "lack of science beneath your core belief in Darwinian evolution" that's been done to death and the creationists keep losing even in the immensely perverted logic of the Bible belt of the USA. Give it up Gnarly, the evangelicals have lost that one and just make themselves look medieval by clinging to the creationist pseudo-science.

The crazy thing here is you have a bunch of logical arguers arguing with people who have abandoned reason in favour of belief. Being able to suspend credulity is a good thing otherwise the Goon show (inter alia) would have not been so brilliantly surreal. Drama would have no purpose. A temporary suspension of credulity is one thing but basing your whole life on belief in a particular, unverifiable mythology - living in a world of make believe - would have seen you locked up if the nut houses weren't run by co-believers. Most ordinary, sensible people you meet think Scientologists are all certifiable because of what they believe to be real. Their mythology is gobsmackingly obviously less than improbable. But, if you look closely at their belief system it is no more incredulous than that of pretty well any religious mythology - take your pick (Egyptian, Zarathustran, Greek, Roman, Norse . . . At least they don't have to resort to the ". . . works in mysterious ways" excuse to explain the truly ridiculous parts of their mythology like the Abrahamic religions do. Speaking of Zarathustra, I though you might like to see an image thereof. [ATTACH]47541._xfImport[/ATTACH] Remind you of anyone? As the scribes wrote in Ecclesiastes 1-4-11 "אין כל חדש תחת השמש" a rough translation: “ . . . there is no new thing under the sun.” What they left off was so why not copy it?

Thanks GG, that explains a lot. 1. Pull the pin and roll one in. 2. Run away without being bothered by the logic of the reply. 3. Come back later when the dust has settled and roll in another one. 4. Faith intact, go to 1.

Reason - the bane of my life. I get criticised by socialists for being an "economic rationalist" but what is the alternative? Economic irrationalism? I get criticised by my friends who are into alternative "holistic medicine" because I require medicine to be proved to actually do something efficacious via a rigorous evaluation program. And I get criticised by my spiritual friends for being atheist. If only I could abandon reason all would be well in the world.

I don't know . . . I go away for a couple of days and come back and find there is this enormously rich series of posts to enjoy. My only real problem is where to begin. The Hillbilly in the white shirt I had quite a few chuckles from this comedian but more than the odd cringe as well. Sort of reminded me of the singers at fundamentalist, evangelist churches. Good singers but not great, entertaining but lacking the charisma of a real star. Worst compliment I could offer the singers is "inoffensive" but the hillbilly did manage to be offensive even if only because of his appalling ignorance and putrid attempts at logical argument. Marty_d, it is unlikely you'll get an answer from the Gnu to your question: " . . . did you find the video Octave posted amusing, or do fundamental christians not do humour?" but, I live in hope. Turbo's question "Why is is that some atheists here are trying to perpetuate the myth that the Bible is "the word of God"? " My answer: This thread began as a slur against non believers thinly veiled as humour. The author of the slur has repeatedly argued his case on the basis that the Bible is "the inspired word of God" - written by men but they are the words of the Abrahamic God of Jews, Christians and Muslims - in that order of chronology. Turbo, your argument and discussion is really a bit tangential to the origin of this thread. Not that it is not worth discussing - quite the opposite. At least from you we get facts and reasoned argument whereas the original protagonist just keeps quoting the modern interpretation of the goat herders guide to the universe. Turbo: "Why do you Don rail against the Christian church?" I don't believe I do. I actually have a soft spot for bits like the Sermon on the Mount - something that struck as quite beautiful the first time I heard it and despite my atheism I still think this is a wonderful piece of writing and a sweet philosophy. Perhaps I am happy to rail against the evangelical creationists and their intolerance of anything that doesn't fit precisely their view of the Universe regardless of the evidence. Turbo: " telling us why they don'y believe in God" (sic). Well, this has been brilliantly answered by Octave and I doubt I could add to his eloquent statement. Until you get back to the Big Bang, we have Science providing answers to most things based on evidence. The Big Bang - did it happen?, what came before the Big Bang? How many universes are there? What is Space made of? and quite a few other questions, Science is yet to answer with any degree of certainty based on evidence. FOr example, my mind thinks that the Singularity exploded in the Big Bang which was followed by an expanding Universe and then a collapsing one into black holes that collapse into each other and eventually comprise a singularity which then explodes into a Universe(s). I have no evidence for the above I just like the symmetry of it and that it could go on like that for an infinite period of time (whatever time is). Point is, yes there is one, I don't need to know, just interested. Similarly, I don't need to know if there is a God. You could insert one or many into my expanding/collapsing universes at any point you like but it is no more necessary to have a God in the picture than it is to know whether my hypothesis is true. One thing is for sure, that there is no logic at all in an omnipotent, omnipresent God created by the writers of the Bible. And if God is not logical what is the point - we are all screwed and depend on the whim of a vengeful, vain, cruel practical joker (kill your son . . . no, I was only kidding). A perfect God wouldn't give a rat's arse what we think of him but would like us to chose wisely and behave well towards our fellow man. No Australian citizen then could ever claim a place in Heaven on the "camel through the eye of a needle" theorem. While we get fat and waste food, billions of people around the world are thirsty and famished. On that basis we should all be hoping there is no God. Simply, there is a hard wired need for humans to have answers to their curiosity established by evolution as a positive force. Some sate this need by imagining a deity or deities others exercise their minds and find the answers with evidence. The former are intellectually comfortable in a settled universe with a wonderful next life to look forward to. The latter are never comfortable living in a vast universe with no order and the more knowledge they achieve the more they realise they don't know or understand.

Reminds me of the forecasting that goes on for exchange and interest rates . . . Just extrapolate where it has been going for the last few weeks. Nearly as accurate as one line weather forecasting.

How long before the woman who can't pronounce her own surname repays the CFMEU by legalising the outlaw bikie gangs again?

That venerable Journal of Science, the Herald Sun. How could it not be true? Funny, but the alternate theory doesn't seem to involve an omnipotent old man with a three-way split personality. The difference between people who think and people who suspend credibility so they can believe the utterly improbable is that the thinkers have an open mind and will listen to new evidence and theory compared with the closed mind believers who believe the same twaddle that somebody tod them when they were young and impressionable regardless of the evidence.

Incidentally, the other Catholic Boys High School in Newcastle had two of the worst peadophiles and sparked the Royal Commission with some help from an honest, courageous Copper and an equally brave journo who ended up winning a Walkley Award for her tireless support of the copper. THe Detective copped nothing but abuse from the Police in the district and ended up a broken man. A damn shame.

As I said I know nobody on here would want to trivialise it - especially you Nev. I attended a catholic high school but never heard of anyone being molested although a mate did say to me one day to not be in a room on your own with the choirmaster.

I detest the term "kiddy fiddling" as it so understates the evil. I understand it is used widely and that nobody on here meant to trivialise it but I wish it would disappear both the molestation and that term for it. I agree with Nev that it seemed to happen wherever there was the opportunity.