Gnarly Gnu

Labor: because wages, conditions and job security will be so much higher for everyone by adding tens of thousands of illegal immigrants or something. Well perhaps they meant it benefits the security industry....

Yes this is because of political correctness, a foundational pillar of the left with its origins in Marxism. People like Cory Bernardi who are not PC are regularly howled and ranted at by the left media for stating honestly what they believe. You would prefer more to be like him? Thank you for so elegantly illustrating your own point Old Koreelah. You see Howard did indeed announce the Liberal parties intention to replace the Sales Tax system with a GST very clearly prior to the 1998 election. There is no ambiguity about this at all, it was very clear and they still got voted in*. But the left have since fabricated the myth that this didn't happen in a feeble attempt to cover Gillards carbon tax lie. You being an un-critical follower of leftist media have unthinkingly swallowed this lie and being incurious about conservatism failed to conduct even a simple check before repeating it - as was of course the intention of the myths fabricators. As much as you (and I actually) despise Murdoch you wouldn't be suckered into this sort of stuff so easily if you perused some of his News Ltd outlets as well as the extreme leftwing ABC / Fairfax. In other words as you were saying more education is needed. * From Wiki: "In May 1997, the Prime Minister shocked his party and created headlines when he unilaterally indicated a GST might be proposed as part of broader changes to the tax system. In August of that year, the Prime Minister announced that the Government would contest the next election offering a GST with extensive compensatory cuts in income and sales taxes. A long held conviction of Howard’s, the tax reform proposal was credited with boosting his confidence and direction, which had appeared to wane early in the Government’s second year. The Treasurer was charged with forming and running a special confidential working group to devise the details of the plan over the following 12 months. The Coalition Tax Reform Package was launched on 13 August 1998 and included a 10 percent GST with the proceeds to be distributed to the states. Income tax would be lowered and the wholesale sales tax abolished, along with certain taxes on financial transactions. Over that fortnight, the proposal received a generally positive response and on 30 August the Prime Minister announced an early election for 3 October 1998. The GST, however, proved to be a difficult sell during the election campaign which was considered a “referendum on the GST”.

So we need re-education for the masses who currently don't realise how ignorant they are? Somewhere I've heard this stuff before. ABC maybe? BTW you don't think the 'educated class' has caused any sort of ah... problems over the last decade or so?

^ yet another lefty free speech champion. All radio should be first processed through the ministry of truth to avoid naive proletariat listeners being manipulated eh. (and no I don't listen to either of the ones you mention.)

Nah, for that one just really stupid.

Because it's so ridiculous that yes it is quite laughable to suggest anyone would be dopey enough to believe it Winsor*. Hence funny. * you come across as quite anti-Australian but I don't think you are kooky enough to believe all this nutty green / communist propaganda yourself. But then I could be wrong.

These people are free to leave at any time and their transport out will be arranged and supplied free of charge when requested. They are not forced to labour in any way and have plenty of free food, medicines and medical treatment, cigarettes plus the use of phones and generally a limited range of entertainment or basic sporting facilities. All questioning is done on a voluntary basis with no obligation to answer at all. To refer to this as a 'concentration camp' is deliberate deceit and beyond wilful ignorance, any person intelligent enough to breath and speak would grasp the difference. It is also an attempt to belittle and demean those around the world that are or have been in an actual concentration camp; I have known some of these people who have suffered dreadfully and for this reason I despise your pathetic political propaganda and deception. Proverbs 17v10 "A reproof enters more deeply into him that has understanding than a hundred stripes into a fool"

They could put them on treadmills each day to generate green electricity, rather than just sitting about smoking and lip stitching they can help save the planet!

This is good: He said the number of asylum-seekers arriving on boats had fallen by more than 80 per cent since the Coalition's operation began four months ago. "This government is stopping the boats,'' Mr Morrison said. Wonder what is happening with the 30,000 odd illegal 'future ALP voters' already here. BTW funny that my Moslem contacts here (not illegals) said they wouldn't vote for Gillard because she is an unmarried concubine. Another dud plan?

This is an interesting read: "Check out what communism did for the environment" Also, basic political systems explained:

Who is that guy, did he start a circus or something?

I agree. Welfare causes crime and breaks up families with tragic social consequences. Cut welfare back sharply to those that are not disabled or feeble and at the same time free up regulations that stifle small / single business operators so that folk can have a go.

Seriously 'fact-hunter' you actually believe scientific fact is established by consensus? You actually put that out there with no shade of embarrassment? Remember how in the recent past scientists would regularly talk about vestigial organs and how 90-something percent of our DNA is 'junk DNA', an evolutionary by-product? Notice how they don't mention that any more? That's because due to scientific advances they now know that those organs and that DNA actually does have a purpose so the scientific text books were re-written yet again and these terms were quietly canned. The same process is under way with 'global warming' as this stage the term has transitioned to 'climate change' so that all types of significant weather events can be fudged into it. The Mann 'hockey stick graph' hoax has also been canned and isn't mentioned (except perhaps in the faith based media like the ABC). Old Koreelah - I will watch that clip later today. Marty - like 'facthunter' you are firm in your faith on this Darwinian stuff so there is no point derailing this thread further by going over your questions. I will just repeat that ZERO transitional fossils have been found and anyone having an honest and objective look at this. Of the creatures around today their fossils are absolutely identical irrespective of age. The missing link remains missing. Whilst we try to get back to topic (none of your new Moslem immigrant BFFs believe this Darwinian stuff BTW) I will leave you to ponder on the purpose and effectiveness of partially formed sex organs and the miracle of how your ancestors somehow reproduced with them. If you were to find some fossils in this phase it would be interesting, you could hit the media big time.

Nope, think about it. As Darwin said it makes absolute sense that the majority of fossils found should be transitionary types, that is one species gradually changing into another different species. The main point is that the only observable changes or mutations have involved loss of genetic information, not addition. Neither is there to date any observable mechanism in any creature where this genetic information could be added without external manipulation. Yes, totally agree. Not climate change - it is very evident that the climate changes over time and always has. I said anthropogenic global warming is junk science and has become a religion. I enjoy and to am extent an involved in both areas (science & religion) and personally don't see any conflict between them. But yeah, should get back to thread topic right....

If you are interested in this stuff it would be worthwhile for you to look a bit further into it. Charles Darwin was a scientist and in fact a better one than many today in my opinion. If you've read his book you will know that he himself suggested the basis on which his hypothesis could be tested and on which it would essentially pass or fail, this is a fair and reasonable scientist. What has been verified is the 'natural selection' process whereby genetic information can be bred out of a species be it a plant or an animal. If you want only dwarf wheat with tough stalks or only spaniels with extra shaggy coats that is natural selection by selective breeding. But what has never been observed is the central part of his hypothesis which is species change or what today we would say is the addition of genetic information. Darwin said for his idea to be verified would mean that the vast majority of fossils found would be of the transitional type. To date with millions of fossils found not a single one has been shown to be a transitionary type despite a few notable hoaxes such as Piltdown. That is why I and others refer to it as a hypothesis, the central claim has never been observed happening in any way, shape or form and in addition would tend to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics which is a very observable process. In addition to the lack of any physical fossil evidence scientific advances in the understanding of genetics and cell complexity over the past 30 odd years also render this hypothesis as increasingly problematic. From a mathematical perspective the level of improbability is now off the scale. A lot has changed since many of us read those school textbooks that talked about bacteria evolving and adapting for example, now we can actually observe what is happening. He never went as far as to claim abiogenesis as part of his hypothesis as far as I am aware, that requires another whole level of faith that I certainly don't have not to mention the obvious violation of physics such as Lavoisiers law. It would be nice if all science today did seek only facts then we wouldn't have junk science like the postulation of anthropogenic global warming which never panned out because it fails basic math, hence becoming itself a laughable religion.

An agnostic is someone without faith Nev. An atheist believes by faith that there is no God. It is commonly tied to believe in abiogenesis and Darwinian evolution hypothesis as in #344 (neither of which have been scientifically verified, hence by faith). But back on topic - I understand the actual number of refugees arriving will be similar just that the means is no longer dictated by people smugglers bringing wealthy economic migrants. This is good news IMO and I can't see why any person of integrity that wanted to help genuine refugees would be unhappy about this.

Besides Atheism has killed more people than religions have - reflect on the triumph of Cuba, Communist China, the USSR, North Korea etc all led by famous atheists with tens of millions left dead. The most dangerous faith one could say. On topic, some good news, I think Scott Morrison is doing an outstanding job: "....no one arriving by boat had been "transferred to Australian immigration authorities" in the past week. With no arrivals for more than three weeks, compared with 419 for the same period last year, Mr Morrison said people-smugglers were unable to trade with any success.The Australian revealed yesterday that as many as five boats had been turned or towed back to Indonesia over the past month."

Yes indeed, Christians and in particular black US gang-bangers are reading up Chronicles in their bible study and going out to kill crying "Jesus akbar!". Whatever floats your boat I guess. Marty if you were serious you would read the whole passage and immediately see that this was a decision that Asa and his people came to and is not a biblical command at all. I suggest you simply don't like the Bible as it offends your own religion which is secular humanism. That's fine, your choice but why not live in an Atheist country if you feel strongly about this stuff? Or a Moslem country if you really believe all these cultures and religions are equal? They're pretty tolerant of Atheists no?

Even without knowing the doctrinal details most folk are smart enough to figure out this is claim, although fairly commonly made by leftist atheists, is manifestly false based on the evidence before them. One religion seems to be doing 99% of the killing Marty, day in and day out the tally keeps rising. The last 30 days toll is here. See the cultures of all countries are shaped by religion and in the countries where Islam dominates there is no lasting peace.

Yeah, perhaps. The 'wisdom of Islam' as you call it is that Islam is the one and perfect religion which is to be offered to all mankind (Da'wah). Those that refuse to accept Islam are the vilest of creatures and must be killed (Koran 2:193, 8:39 etc). According to the Koran the only way for a Moslem to be assured they are definitely going to paradise is to kill or be killed in holy war and those Moslems that refuse to fight in jihad are damned (2:216, 3:157 etc). So what you really want is for them to drop their religion, I agree with this sentiment and wish you good luck with that.

Yes it's not pretty, breaking the numbers down to the ethnic groups tells a lot. Most of the US shootings are gang related & predominantly black on black (blacks are 12.5% of the US population). Apparently a lot of this is also related to family breakdown (which in turn is largely due to easy availability of welfare and general moral decline). Around 72% of young US blacks are born to unmarried parents and most live without their fathers and 70% of gun crime in NY is by blacks for example. Young black men murder at 14 times the rate of young white men. That isn't to say the whites, Asians etc are crime free but this group is completely distorting the whole crime statistic in the US.

If you believe your wife would not be able to understand firearm training then don't do it. Similarly if you believe you are unable to understand firearm training and safety then don't do it. M61A1's proposal is not compulsory, it seems he is just suggesting a return to the original principals of policing set out by Sir Robert Peels nine principles, known to be very effective by the Detroit Police chief amongst many others. This stuff is becoming more critical now as a good few people are irrational and completely off their heads as O_K points out.

I don't watch television at all & never have. I have an interest in theology hence I read the Koran and parts of the Hadith. This is the worst stuff I have ever read (and I read a lot of books). But it did allow me to understand them much better, if I believed their awful texts I would be out there doing the exact stuff they do, this was a somewhat scary realisation for me.

Common assumption but sadly exactly the opposite is true Marty. Ignorance and poverty is what Moslem countries had up till about 50 - 80 years ago, few of them were even literate enough to read the Koran. Now they are more educated they can read it and carry out the commends therein to kill the rest of us in order to obtain paradise. The more wealthy they are the more finances and time they have to put into this pursuit instead of being so poor they have only to worry about where the next meal is coming from. Hence the majority of recent terrorist attacks have been carried out by employed and university educated Moslems including several doctors and engineers. Look it up if you doubt me. This also is a common myth amongst some Moslems and Atheists. Having read and studied both I can assure your dentist friend that this is absolutely not the case. I would encourage him to read both these books also, whilst the Koran does quote some bible verses the commands and outcomes are diametrically opposed. One can also see some of the differences in the cultures of countries that had a Christian heritage and those that have a Mohammedan foundation.

Yep, it's all our fault. Stay ignorant najis. Possibly gives you a warm feeling zoos knowing you are regarded as equivalent to dog turd....