turboplanner

Some more ancient technology and communication:

 

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This mural at Dendera in Egypt appears to have an electrical insulator theme and shows winged figures similar to those depicted on the Ark of the Covenant.

 

Based on the age of this mural, these people area unlikely to have been depicted as "angels"

 

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This is one of the Dendera "lamps", resting on an "insulator" and with a "cable" coming from the end

 

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The egyptians had the skill to craft these eyes with multi-layered lenses.

 

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The Osireion, with walls twenty feet thick, which we saw previously is believed to be the oldest stone building in Egypt.

 

It was not orientated to a direct cardinal point, but to the east of due north, just like the Way of the Dead in Teotihuacan, Mexico shown here

 

Modern steel construction is much more accurate than 1%. Gosh you couldn't get the bolts in if there was more than a 3mm error on the whole frame. On a 100 m building, 3mm is 3 in 100,000 or 0.003%. Yes, steel building frames had matched hole technology many years ago.But isn't the matched hole technology of modern kits something impressive? Way better than the pyramids, don't you think?.

Well we were talking about stone; so stone blocks vs cast concrete wall panels would be a good comparison

 

 

Wood chests in the day would've been common. Wood chests adorned with a bit of gold probably existed in every ruling household/palace or residence of the upper classes throughout the whole Middle East and surrounding regions. If the Egyptians in Moses' time didn't know anything about it, and of all the historical writings etc the only references to it are found in the Bible, then could it be possible that, like a number of other biblical stories, the biblical story of the Ark of the Covenant isn't completely accurate or never really happened?Silly me....what on earth am I saying? I'll go and wash my mouth out straight away!

Fred Rogers, Dean of Dept Engineering, Illinois Institute of Technology: http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1933/03/05/page/12/article/death-miracle-of-ark-explained-as-electricity

 

 

The skills to build the great pyramid were not acquired overnight but over centuries if not millennia of trial and error and progressive development. Early pyramids just fell down. Later the stepped pyramids were more successful.I would love to see a pyramid at Giza restored with its polished limestone outer casing and the gold cap. What a sight that would be. Guess that will never happen due to cost and damage to the pyramid. However, perhaps one of the mega rich could build a pyramid using modern technology and cladding that in limestone with a gold cap.

The problem in dating the pyramids is that only one piece of wood had been found in an intact pyramid, the Great Pyramid, and that piece of wood was lost, so we can't date them.

 

The Egyptologists patter is that the Saqqara pyramids were the practice run will initial collapses, then a stepped pyramid, then a shallow angle at about the halfway point, then the real thing, which sounds good, but the Saqqara location and the dimensions and orientation had none of the sophistication of the real thing and the thinking lately is that these were later attempts to emulate the Giza pyramids.

 

We do have a date for the Unas pyramid, which definitey was built after the Giza pyramids, and this is what it looks like.

 

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I'm inclinded to agree with this thinking, because among the Saqqara pyramid efforts is the "temple" of Serapeum, which the Egyptologists claim to be chambers for burying bulls.

 

This "temple" consists of "crypts" tunnelled out of limestone bedrock.

 

In each crypt is placed a 65 ton box with 35 ton top lid on each side of a corridor tunnelled out of the rock

 

The granite boxes measure 3.96 metres x 2.3 metres x 3.35 metres

 

At the end of the tunnell there is no room to manually slide the last boxes into position.

 

The sides and stop of the box and bottom of the lid were checked by a toolmaker using a straightedge and flashlight, and found to be perfectly flat.

 

In other words the quality in the "temple" was right up to the Giza standard.

 

There is general consensus that the Egyptian civilization came into being virtually overnight; one minute they were hunter-gatherers, the next minute they had all these skills; the question is which civilization came along, showed them what to do, then left.

 

The Ark of the Covenant is another enigma, which as we know Moses took, or was given for his trip out of Egypt. The Egyptians in his time didn't seem to know what it was, or if they did, were not telling, but it burnt half his face off.

 

Well as we have seen above, we are talking about an error of 0.02% in 750 feet, not 10 mm per metre.

 

 

Could we?

 

And if we could, could we do it on a normal production run?

 

Bear in mind the human eye can't tell a corner is out of square below about 3 degrees, that's 10,800 seconds of arc, and they were building to an error of 12 seconds of arc, as well as achieving all the concurrent dimensions mentioned in #3820.

 

Not only that, but they were doing it in a routine production run.

 

The archaeologists have been able to tell us the Great Pyramid was built by 20,000 workers over about 20 years and laid 2.3 million stone blocks averaging 2.7 tonnes at the rate of 1 block every five minutes working 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

 

The did this working on an angle of 51 degrees 30 minutes up to a height of 146.709 metres.

Turbs, since when has modern construction not been able to work to a fraction of 1%. That is 10mm per meter. I worked for many years in the construction industry and we would never have got any work approved at that standard.

Well 1% is not a fraction of 1%, but yes, poorly worded: "The Flinders Petrie surveyed dimensions, when more of the pyramid was intact showed an 8 inch variation between the longest side and the shortest side, which is a variation of a fraction of 1%, something you don't find in buildings today."

 

The actual fraction is available, it's 0.02% in 750 feet ("The Great Pyramid" John Romer P61. - it's a 564 page book with a massive amount of detail)

 

If that doesn't knock your socks off:

 

• The mean corner angle error is 12 seconds of arc
   
  
• In setting the pryamid to true north, the builders found they had made an error with the stone construction, so re-orientated it by cutting the limestone casing stones to finish up with an error of only 5 seconds of arc from True North.
   
  
• The relationship of the base perimeter to the height of the pyramid is 2Pi, and thge measurements include the golden section and the Fibonacci series.
   
  
• A huge block of fine white limestone which stands at the top of the Grand Gallery has been set precisely at the point on the pyramid's vertical axis where the area of the base of the pyramid above the block is exactly half the area of the base of the pyramid.
   
  
• The block is also linked precisely to the main axis of the pyramid, and thus, through the four cardinal points to the stars of the night sky (but we won't go near God tonight).
   
  

 

 

Why not cut down into the suspected hidden main tombs from outside Tut's section? Trouble is, the place seems to be a rabbit warren. Wherever you dig you're likely to blunder into something. A good argument for hastening slowly until better ground-penetrating technology is available. Who says we have to uncover the whole lot in our time? We should leave a few treasures for future generations to discover... and out of sight of destructive religious nutters.

Better idea than destroying the paintings for sure.

 

 

The treasures that came from Tut Ank Ahmun's ("The image of Ahmun) tiny tomb are spread all over the top floor of the Cairo museum and are a thing of wonder in themselves.

Watch the news over the next 12 months or so, one group believes, because of his sudden death, that he was buried in one of the entrance rooms of his mothers tomb two independent tests have indicated there's a cavity behind one of the walls of Tut's tomb.

 

The problem is that on that wall are priceless paintings, so all involved are trying to come up with a method of getting into the sealed of tomb, which will make Tut's look like a street stall.

 

No one is going to be putting so much as a Ryobi drill to to the wall unless there's a fail-proof solution, and that in itself is great news following the political demis of Zawi Hawass in the political upheaval. Hawass protected the monuments like a hawk.

 

 

The burning of the library at Alexandria might just have been a boon to science. Most of the lost works were full of superstitious nonsense, and time spent on research there would have been detrimental to any scientific advance.Funny how an atrocity can have a good side in retrospect.

I've never seen a list of the contents, figured they were all gone so no point looking. If the Catholics wanted to burn them that tells you something. The lighthouse was one of the eight wonders of the world though, fry your eyeballs.

 

 

They were built so the exalted inhabitants (deceased) could last forever and not have their treasures robbed from the site.. Failed on both counts so a bit of a wasted effort. A good result is some of the artifacts of a significant ancient society are preserved for our scrutiny and edification. Nev

The "pyramids for tombs" era is almost over, except for the Egyptologists. You can go on line and see photos of the Great Pyramid's Grand Gallery with its tapers and grooves and specialised structures at the top and see there's an engineering use. There has been an explosion or backfire of some sort in the King's chamber which has displaced the walls neatly outwards, chemical stains, anda Japanese research party found piston type wear on the grand gallery grooves, but no one's figured it all out yet.

 

The library of Alexandria, which held most of the history of the world might have provided some answers, but the Christians burnt it to the ground.

 

 

Well I probably should've said minor variations don't always matter. Sure they do sometimes, depending on what you're building.Still, the Egyptians' ability to do these things was not perfect, though admittedly quite phenomenal, but........so what?

Quite a large percentage of the population today wants everything summed up in a 30 second statement; that's not going to happen when you get involved in the history of a complete civilisation.

 

So what? Well I get a kick out of drawing up a product to roughly meet the design requirement, then doing the small amount of work to get the lengths and widths and radii in harmony to make it not only functional, but great looking - and that came straiight from Egyptian skills.

 

And when I'm trading I know not to buy into a Fibonacci level, and to use a sell target just before one, and those numbers don't belong to the Italian Fibonacci at all, but the Egyptians.

 

And on the farm in setting up a fence at 90 degrees I just measure 30 metres, 40 metres and 50 metres........which came from the Egyptians.

 

It's not until you get interested in their knowledge that you realise what an impact they had on our way of life.

 

 

I think there's a bit of difference between the perception of the "perfection" of pyramid construction and the reality.Great Pyramid of Giza Is Slightly Lopsided

 

No-one disputes the Egyptians had impressive technical skills for the day. But could they manage it with more precision than in the modern day? Probably not. Do minor variations in civil construction precision matter in the modern day? Not really.

The Flinders Petrie surveyed dimensions, when more of the pyramid was intact showed an 8 inch variation between the longest side and the shortest side, which is a variation of a fraction of 1%, something you don't find in buildings today. The corner angles are even more precise, but the geographic placement of the pyramid is stunning. What was at first to be an error from the round number was actually precisely correct when parallax was factored in.

 

I just checked the link you provided and this was the comparison. The current team checked several points and then used software to estimate the lengths

 

SIDE FLINDERS PETRIE DASH-LEHNER

 

West 755.7629' 755.833 < 756.024'

 

East 755.8745' 755.561 < 755.817

 

What is very interesting here is that Mark Lehner is an Egyptologist and the egyptologists fought the early researchers of about 20 years ago, disputing every discovery, but this has settled down to some reasonable research. I note that he is still attributing the Greater Pyramid to Khufu and the age to 4500 years, when the only link with Khufu and the age is a single cartouche of very suspicious history, which appears to have been debunked in the last couple of years by a family claiming a witness saw Vise paint it on (to keep the money flowing).

 

What they didn't mention is that the stone blocks are arranged on each side in an almost imperceptible concave 'V" so that when you look at the pyramid from a distance, the side look flat, rather than slightly bulged.

 

 

Ancient civilisations, especially Egypt, are impressive when viewed through a particular lens... pretty much their stonework and architecture.

The human brain hasn't changed much in 200,000 years. It makes sense that in every era there would be the full spectrum of intelligence from bogan to Einstein, and if the Einstein-equivalents were high enough caste or able to get their ideas to the ruling classes (or the moneyed ones, usually went together) then you get "paradigm shifts" for want of a better term, in the skills they had in that era. Architecture, art, writing, counting, medicine, whatever.

 

Unless they developed nano-technology or the ability to print microscopic circuits, that comment is just plain wrong.

We're using those to render our buildings?

 

 

When I saw the Sphinx for real, I was shocked at how small it was and also how there were houses starting just on the opposite side of the street. Yep the Sphinx is on a street.All the pictures I had seen were from just the right low camera angle to make it look bigger, and of course the angle was away from the houses.

 

Some of us look for more wisdom in the ancients than they obviously possessed, I wonder why that is.

 

A con-man called Von Daniken used some jail time gainfully to write a nonsense but best selling book called "chariots of the gods" in which he said how the pyramids must have had alien help.

 

Gosh we could do with a bit of alien help right now.. they could negotiate with CASA on out behalf.

It's believed to have been recharged from a larger size, and the head may have been recarved politically because it's out of proportion for a sphinx. It is perfectly aligned to face due east, the beginning of life (vs due west, death). Robert Shocht studied the weathering on the Sphinx and pit which show vertical rain erosion, indicating it is the oldest structure in Egypt, dating it to the end of the last ice age, around 6,000 years ago. The Cairo museum had got to an appallingly bad state before the international community stepped in and started to protect the museum and monuments. Not sure what's going on in today's troubled times. Most of what Von Daniken said was debunked almost immediately in "crash go the chariots" but that set lot's of people searching for the truth. It's clear that the Egyptians obtained their skills "overnight" in terms of the world's time scale, and lost them just as fast. They worked to an accuracy we can't achieve today, e.g. The polished limestone which once covered the pyramids described as polished to an optician's accuracy on a scale of acres.

 

 

Try under arm deodorant.

 

 

I have to give in to your deeper knowledge Turbs, my thinking has been shaped by the stories about the search for the beginnings of the Nile right into colonial times.

You'd probably be able to find out the situation by studying the history of Khartoum, which was at the confluence of the White and Blue Niles.

 

 

Turbs, I reckon the most amazing thing about the ancient Egyptians is that they never sent an expedition up the Nile. Gosh they were the world's superpower and the expedition could have been protected by an army.My guess is that the guys in charge knew deep down that all their religious stuff was ********. Of course they needed their fictions about gods etc sending Nile flows to be unchallenged by any evidence, because it gave them their exalted positions.

The Egyptians had trade routes right down into Ethiopia, and they had gauges along the Nile and were able to forecast the grain crop and build extra granaries when needed. They only had one God. In their written history of Kep Tepi, the first time, it explained how those beings (which we now call souls) wanted to experience human life, and tried throwing themselves into human bodies for a while. God warned them that this absorbed tremendous power and things could go wrong. Some of them found they could not get out of the body, others finished up with half human/ half animal, and some had major organs missing. These last were referred to as "things" and we're used as slaves. The successful conversions we're humans with a much advanced level of knowledge and skills.

 

Since everyone knew what had happened, these people were not cobsidered gods, but acted as "champions" in teaching the population advanced skills.

 

 

Impressive stonework, Turbs. I don't know this building. Is the flooding associated with the Aswan High Dam?

Abu Simbell was the area covered by the dam. The Egyptologists thought it was a temple, but it's now thought to have some hydrographic use.

 

 

Nutters. The End has been Nigh so many times that I'm getting tired of repenting.

....and we're back to the Christian stories again, like being bogged in treacle.

 

There were advanced civilisations with their own skills and beliefs well before this, for example:

 

It's only 2000 years back to the days of Jesus Christ, but go back another 1400 years when Hapshepsut reigned - a female Pharaoh - diversity way back then!

 

The priests held the scientific and engineering knowledge, and her temple is an example of the architectural proportioning that we still use today. They believed in a God, and wrote on papyrus.

 

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or go back 4,000 years before Christ to the Osirion at Abydos in Egypt; no stick cponstruction here, and the cyclopean architecture incoporates the orecise keying of huge blocks of stone found in Central America. and this was thouands of years before Kep Tepi, where Souls were discussed.

 

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Over these thousands of years before Christ, the people didn't get their knowledge from paid BS artists.

 

Yes, when they were hundreds of km from islands they read the swell, in the day time and had a very simple way of reading the stars at night. Then they looked for different species of land based sea birds which ranged out at different distances, and then they could use the convection clouds, but also they could do it at night.

 

 

I'm talking about historic facts, not fairy stories; fairy stories are fairy stories...but you knew that.

 

 

Research for what?

An anthropologist might study them when researching the origins of western civilisation.

 

Any experienced Policeman will tell you the unreliability of witnesses and that a few witnesses will often give totally conflicting stories.

That certainly happens, but part of our criminal justice system is based on independent witness statements which corroborate an observation.

 

In a case where a Sumerian text reports that something happened at dawn on the first day of spring in the tenth year after 'X" died, and a Qumram text says the same, and the bible says the same, that's pretty good evidence that it happened at 4:30 am on March 1, 145 BC.

 

Now take those facts and relate them to a time where events were carried by mouth to mouth, over long periods of time and multiple sources. there was no internet, telegraph, telephones etc. and traveling Story Tellers wouldn't get a free feed, not for telling some boring run of the mill story, but would get food and even paid to exaggerate and entertain, bringing wondrous stories from other districts or lands, i.e. "A man who walks on water you say ...."

Well that descended into dribble didn't it.

 

Many tribal stories have been proved to be accurate, and an example, which directly relates to us, is given in the book "We, the Navigators" which describes how Pacific Ocean tribes passed down navgation skill from generation to generation, which allowed them to sail hundreds of kilometres across the ocean and navigate back, not just to their home island, but to the break in the reef surrounding their home island.

 

 

It might be helpful for those making these one line quotes to understand that the Essenes were studying all of the various religions, as well as day to day life.

 

Look at the dead sea scrolls as valuable research notes.

 

Where they are of most value is in corroborating events in the Bible and Sumerian texts to provide corroborated dates and even times of some events.

 

 

Well I hope so, I for one am very concerned that I am not sacrificing animals in the correct manner or for that matter, the right temple.

Sacrificing animals, temples? Have you read any of the translations?