farri

Guys, This has just been posted on my facebook page by a guy I know extremely well. I taught him to fly the Drifter many years ago. I`m posting this to show that compassion and caring works better than " Kill the bastards". Due in part to my counseling, this guy regained some self respect, cleaned himself up, went to uni, got a degree, worked with under privileged kids for a few years and now is starting his own business again. At the time his daughter was 9 years old and she was caught up in it all. She has since been to uni, gained a degree and her father told me she will work, counseling murders, but the funding for her work is very slow in coming. Incidently, if any person needs help with a drug problem being themselves or a relative or friend Queensland Health run a service even if you just want information. If you think your kids may have a problem put your arms around them & tell them how much you love them. I remember a certain person a few years ago who was off the rails & had no one to turn to & only one person stepped up & took them in & protected them & that only one person was Frank & I will always be grearful for your support & faith in me Frank. Thank you. For so long ago now. This has brought me to tears but I know the guy would be happy for me to post this, in the hope it may help someone else. I caught up with him, when, after many years, one night I decided to see if I could find him on facebook and I did. He`s back in the Cairns area, we`ve been flying together and will do again soon. Frank.

It`s not a question of who wins the argument here!... What I`ve been saying and far before the execution of Chan and Sukumarn, and what I`ve trying to say here, is, "The drug problem in this country, has not been addressed simply, by executing these two guys!"...Incidentally! I don`t believe it has done much to address the issue in that country either, all they`ve done is got rid of some more couriers, they havn`t touch the big players and producers, they`re still working away at it. Until the users are seen as part of the problem and not victims of it, nothing much will change. The problem has to be addressed from both sides, suppliers and users. Saw a program on TV recently, where they were implying that the poppy growers in Tasmania were contributing to the illicit drug problem! Frank.

Some on here have said that Chan and Sukumaran were garbage and that the garbage had simply been disposed of. Others have said, those of us who don`t have family or friends, who are addicts, would think and feel differently if those dear to us were addicts. To those, I ask this! "How would you feel and think, if, for whatever reason, someone dear to you, was to become caught up in the drug trade,decide to become a dealer, was caught, spent 10 years in a hell hole of a prison, then executed?" I`m only interested in the facts and this is how I see them! Chan and Sukumaran, were executed for breaking the law of that country! there`s no more to be said on that point. Were they stupid?...Beyond belief!..Should someone be executed for stupidity? The intention was to get the drugs out of the country, not bring them in, they were caught and the drugs seized, the drugs never go to their intended point.....Should anyone be executed for intent alone? These guys had rehabilitated themselves and were helping others!....Does the reason they rehabilitated themselves matter? To keep someone in prison for years, in this case 10, then execute them, is to me, totally barbaric! The system and those who carried out the execution are the murders. I don`t believe for a second that the execution has done anything to address the drug problem/issue! For many years, people have been and are continuing to be, executed in Indonesia, yet the country has an enormous drug problem. Frank. Ps, I wonder what happened to the drugs that were seized?

http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/heroin-history.html Frank.

Leave God out of it, for GOD`S SAKE!....So much evil has been done in the name of God....There probably have been more people tortured and killed due to religion than drugs will ever kill....Is it that religion itself is evil? Sixth commandment, "Thou shalt not kill", yet people who claim to believe in God are quite prepared to be part of an execution squad, or support execution. Frank.

Richard, you`ve made relevant points!.... What would you then say, we should do with the users and abusers, keeping in mind, it`s not only the illicit drugs that are a problem in our society? Frank.

An eye for an eye and eventually, everyone will be blind. Frank.

Could it also be that too may people are seriously attached to the reality of it all, to form a truly non biased opinion? The Anita Cobby case is a separate issue and therefore has no relevance to the Chan, Sukumaran case. Frank.

I didn`t know that, gandalph, but I`m not surprised! This issue has just begun and I reckon it is going to hurt innocent people, in both countries, who had absolutely nothing to do with it! That will also be a terrible outcome. Frank.

To me, it wasn`t a rant! You`ve made good relevant points.......It`s possible, the execution has created two martyrs. Frank.

Bex, I couldn`t even begin to know how you, addicts or anyone else, would feel in such a situation and I sincerely hope,I never have to. So far, Frances ( my wife ) and I havn`t had to deal with substance abuse of any kind. We have two grandchildren turning twenty shortly and three in their early twenties, should any one of them decide to use illicit drugs, I will blame myself, not some dealer. I didn`t start this thread to create conflict, it was my way of creating discussion, in the hope that something positive would come out of it! I`m well aware that anyone who has family or friends, using illicit drugs, abusing legal drugs or any other substance, will see the situation different, to those who don`t. I`ve have had a life time to think about this issue! Initially I blamed the producers and the dealers but I came to see, that the users play just as big a part in the issue as the producers and dealers. Whenever a dealer is put in prison,or executed, there is always another person, who thinks they are smarter than the last guy, waiting to take their place! The drug trade is even run from inside prisons. It appears to me, there will always be producers, dealers and users of illicit drugs and those who will abuse any substance that will give them the effect they want. If the execution of dealers is justified, is the execution of users justified?........ As has been said here by others!....."They won`t do it again." Frank.

Education!..... As with illicit drugs or any other substance abuse, education begins in the home and as early as possible. Boys need to be taught that it is not manly to abuse anyone, let alone women and children. There are many reasons why domestic violence occurs! There is no quick fix solution but education in the home and in schools is a step in the right direction. Frank.

Of course that`s possible! Hypothetically, anything is possible but It`s going to take more than a hypothetically argument to convince me. I`m just amazed at the number of people who are prepared to call dealers garbage but are not prepared to call users garbage or even admit that the users are part of the problem. Users do most of the crime to obtain the money to feed the habit. The drugs on the streets arn`t all coming in from other countries, they are being cooked and supplied by people in this country. They can obtain any number of legal medications from chemists and turn them into deadly illegal drugs. Frank.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumarn, had been in prison for 10 years! They rehabilitated themselves and helped others to do the same, the simple fact, is, they were no longer the persons they where when they were arrested!.... Sure! They they went against the country`s laws, but they could have been spared the death penalty and been an asset in rehabilitating others, which would have done far more good than what has happened. As far as I`m concerned, they, and their families, were put through a long, slow process of torture! for what?...I think I`d be correct in saying, it`s made no difference to the illicit drug situation and right at this very moment, there will be any number of users, using, all over the world. To say, Andrew and Myuran won`t do it again, is, to my way of thinking, simply stupid, to the exreme. I have as much sympathy for the users and their families, as anyone can, however, the problem, (challenge if you prefer), is not going to be fixed by revenge. Frank.

Your opinion and not relevant, because the fact is they were caught. Unless the drugs were forcefully injected,without the persons consent, they made the decision to put the needle into themselves! As far as I`m concerned, the users are part of the problem and the drug issue will never be solved, while users are seen as victims! Possibly! How much money has the government spent ( taxpayer $ ), trying to help addicts? Unless the policy has changed, free needles have been handed out to addicts for many years, the rest of us have to pay for the medications we need. Most public toilets have a container to dispose of used needles If there were no free needles handed out, just maybe, there would be fewer hanging off the end of one!.But then again! I suppose they would either steal or become dealers, to buy them. Frank.

Absolutely correct! but they hadn`t been doing it for the last 10 years,either. http://www.dw.de/unodc-indonesia-is-a-major-drug-trafficking-hub/a-18231494 Frank.

What I wouldn`t like to see, is the innocent people, both in Indonesia and Australia being hurt! So we stop $ Aid, who gets hurt the most? The innocent people! it will never be the Drug trade. Stop trade!... Again the innocent, in both countries. The employer who will loose everything, because they can`t sell their product. The worker who depends on the job they will loose! and on and on! I think I`ve made the point. We have the chicken and egg scenario! If there were no illicit drug producers and dealers, there would be no users! If there were no users, there would be no one to sell the drugs to. I believe there is too much money to be made by too many people, to ever truly want to stop the illicit drug trade. Frank.

Wouldn`t have addressed the user issue and still hasn`t

It may well be, but don`t you have to put it into your mouth and swallow it first? Frank. Edit: Oh yeah! There are other ways to get into the body!

No Bill! I`ve never said that, ever! That is your interpretation of what I have said! My wife Frances and I have 3 adult children, 8 grandchildren and two great granddaughters! We have done and will continue to do our very best to make sure that they know the dangers of illicit drugs and do not become users of them,so far, none of them have. No! I never said that either! If you read my post again, you will see that, this is what I actually said, "Those who appear to be a bit more compassionate than you". I absolutely remember! The pop band I formed and played in as a teenager, was asked, more than once, to go to drug parties, we never did! I`ve never touched illicit drugs and I never will. Am I saying, "I`m holier than though?", of course I`m not! What I have been saying for most of my life,is, "While ever there are illicit drug users,there will always be someone who will supply them". Frank. Ps, All the best to you and yours,Bill.

Unless I`m mistaken and please correct me if I am, these two guys were executed for attenpting to bring drugs into Australia! Unless they had done it before and even then there would have to be hard evidence, that anyone who used the drugs they supplied, acutely died from those drugs, they never killed anyone, therefore, they were not murders! What you have said about the cost in $ and human life is probably correct and tragic, but until the drug users are seen as part of the problem and not victims, and the situation addressed accordingly, I don`t think there is going to be much difference made, by these two men`s death. Frank.

That`s you`re point of view and I respect your right to it, but I doesn`t give you the right to call those who appear to be a bit more compassionate than you "bleeding heart do gooders", that`s bull sh!t. Do you not see that the user chooses to put the drugs in their mouth or their vein`s. Frank.

Agree! But what sort of society are we creating by keeping someone in prison for years, then executing them? It appeared to me that Andrew and Myuran, would not have been repeat offenders, in fact, they had a lot to offer in rehabilitating others. At some point,everyone deserves forgiveness! Frank.

I don`t believe that it has! Try telling that to the addicted user! All the addicted user care`s about, is their next hit, fix, call it what you like. Franco (Frank)

Will the execution of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, make any different to the ongoing illicit drug use?.........I believe it won`t!!! Frank.